April 2 2018 storm 5.5 10 AM total. Will wait on Mike to verify

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Re: April 2 2018 storm 5.5 10 AM total. Will wait on Mike to verify

Post by Math23x7 on Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:25 pm

Site__1 PM_7 PM_Diff.
EWR _6.6"_8.4"_1.8"
JFK__6.2"__8.0"_1.8"
LGA__5.2"_7.4"_2.2"
CPK__7.8"_9.8"_2.0"

9.8" just about what I measured while it was still snowing. By my count it's reasonable.

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Re: April 2 2018 storm 5.5 10 AM total. Will wait on Mike to verify

Post by billg315 on Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:31 pm

LGA is still odd, but I guess this is as close as we’ll get to good.
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Re: April 2 2018 storm 5.5 10 AM total. Will wait on Mike to verify

Post by CPcantmeasuresnow on Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:33 pm

Math23x7 wrote:Site__1 PM_7 PM_Diff.
EWR _6.6"_8.4"_1.8"
JFK__6.2"__8.0"_1.8"
LGA__5.2"_7.4"_2.2"
CPK__7.8"_9.8"_2.0"

9.8" just about what I measured while it was still snowing.  By my count it's reasonable.

Nice Mike thanks.

They all look reasonable now except of course LGA but who cares, one battle at a time.

With 9.8 inches today in Central Park this storm now becomes the 67th largest snowstorm of all time in NYC. Tied with 3 other storms for that position.
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Re: April 2 2018 storm 5.5 10 AM total. Will wait on Mike to verify

Post by CPcantmeasuresnow on Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:09 am

CPcantmeasuresnow wrote:
Math23x7 wrote:Site__1 PM_7 PM_Diff.
EWR _6.6"_8.4"_1.8"
JFK__6.2"__8.0"_1.8"
LGA__5.2"_7.4"_2.2"
CPK__7.8"_9.8"_2.0"

9.8" just about what I measured while it was still snowing.  By my count it's reasonable.

Nice Mike thanks.

They all look reasonable now except of course LGA but who cares, one battle at a time.

With 9.8 inches today in Central Park this storm now becomes the 67th largest snowstorm of all time in NYC. Tied with 3 other storms for that position.

I've heard from people today that not only is the LGA total ridiculous but the JFK total is just as bad. How comical that one of the few times Central Park is close to accurate the other two stations in NYC fail by several inches and the NWS lets it go, smh.

LGA&JFKCantmeasuresnow
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Re: April 2 2018 storm 5.5 10 AM total. Will wait on Mike to verify

Post by Scullybutcher on Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:02 pm

Have you written DeBlasio. If you say they won’t be able to claim climate change without proper snow totals, he may be willing to help
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Re: April 2 2018 storm 5.5 10 AM total. Will wait on Mike to verify

Post by CPcantmeasuresnow on Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:56 pm

Scullybutcher wrote:Have you written DeBlasio. If you say they won’t be able to claim climate change without proper snow totals, he may be willing to help

lol! lol! lol!

I would, but with all due respect to him I don't think that big, ignorant, bloviating, dumb ape can read.

For any DeBlasio fans out there I did preface my comments with all due respect.


Last edited by CPcantmeasuresnow on Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: April 2 2018 storm 5.5 10 AM total. Will wait on Mike to verify

Post by Carter bk on Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:46 pm

Im in brooklyn and recieved 13

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Re: April 2 2018 storm 5.5 10 AM total. Will wait on Mike to verify

Post by NjWeatherGuy on Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:23 am

What are they measuring in the most wind exposed areas or something? Amateurs.
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Re: April 2 2018 storm 5.5 10 AM total. Will wait on Mike to verify

Post by amugs on Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:33 pm

CPcantmeasuresnow wrote:
Scullybutcher wrote:Have you written DeBlasio. If you say they won’t be able to claim climate change without proper snow totals, he may be willing to help

lol! lol! lol!

I would, but with all due respect to him I don't think that big, ignorant, bloviating, dump ape can read.

For any DeBlasio fans out there I did preface my comments with all due respect.

flower afro lol! white flag party

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Re: April 2 2018 storm 5.5 10 AM total. Will wait on Mike to verify

Post by devsman on Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:15 pm

We all saw that yellow band sit over Brooklyn and queens for 2 hours dropping 2-3 inches per hour. Did they?
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Re: April 2 2018 storm 5.5 10 AM total. Will wait on Mike to verify

Post by CPcantmeasuresnow on Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:22 pm

devsman wrote:We all saw that yellow band sit over Brooklyn and queens for 2 hours dropping 2-3 inches per hour. Did they?

All they needed was a ruler and a competent individual to wield it. I guess it wasn't in the budget.

It's beyond embarrassing that the NWS has not intervened and corrected both measurements upward by several inches. This was a zookeeper type measurement when he would just let the monkeys measure. It's just unacceptable.
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Re: April 2 2018 storm 5.5 10 AM total. Will wait on Mike to verify

Post by Math23x7 on Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:16 pm

I mentioned this in the other thread but I took a stroll through Central Park earlier this afternoon. There was some light accumulation (likely several tenths of an inch). Hopefully the Conservancy picked up on it.

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Re: April 2 2018 storm 5.5 10 AM total. Will wait on Mike to verify

Post by Math23x7 on Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:55 pm

Math23x7 wrote:I mentioned this in the other thread but I took a stroll through Central Park earlier this afternoon. There was some light accumulation (likely several tenths of an inch). Hopefully the Conservancy picked up on it.

And the official CPK measurement is 0.4", which is reasonable. Other reports:

EWR: 1.0"
LGA: 0.1"
JFK: 0.2"
ISP: T
BDR: T

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Re: April 2 2018 storm 5.5 10 AM total. Will wait on Mike to verify

Post by docstox12 on Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:09 pm

Math23x7 wrote:
Math23x7 wrote:I mentioned this in the other thread but I took a stroll through Central Park earlier this afternoon. There was some light accumulation (likely several tenths of an inch). Hopefully the Conservancy picked up on it.

And the official CPK measurement is 0.4", which is reasonable.  Other reports:

EWR: 1.0"
LGA: 0.1"
JFK: 0.2"
ISP: T
BDR: T

You straightened their asses out CP, NEVER saw this kind of efficiency from that crew!!!! Remain vigilant, though ,as we all will making sure they stay on the straight and narrow!
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Re: April 2 2018 storm 5.5 10 AM total. Will wait on Mike to verify

Post by CPcantmeasuresnow on Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:14 pm

Haven't talked to anyone in the city all day but could that 1.3 inches in Central Park be correct?
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Re: April 2 2018 storm 5.5 10 AM total. Will wait on Mike to verify

Post by Math23x7 on Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:11 pm

In terms of surface temperatures, this storm has similarities to the 10/29/11 snow event.  In that event, 1.79" of liquid precipitation fell as snow (which using the 10:1 ratio would be 17.9" of snow).  But because temperatures were in the 33-34 degree range for much of the storm and the temperature never went below 33 degrees, the official snow measurement was 2.9".  Which makes it a ~1.62:1 snow ratio storm.  Areas north and west of the city, which were a tad colder, saw much higher snow amounts.

Now, through 7 PM, 1.21" of liquid precipitation fell as snow.  The lowest temperature was 33 degrees, just like 10/29/11.  Also, we had a good chunk of the snow fall during the day under the March sun.  With the official snowfall measurement through 7 PM of 2.5", the snow ratio would be ~2.07:1.  I think the reason why the ratio was a tad higher today than it was from 10/29/11 is that today's snow came at a bit higher intensity than that one.  

That being said, late last night, it snowed for several hours through 8 AM for 0.12" liquid precipitation (much of it before daybreak) before both dry air and rain occurred for several hours mid-morning.  The CPK snow measurement as of 1 PM was 0.5".  It was snowing heavily leading up to it so I would think that all of the snow the Conservancy measured came after the brief rain period.  When I woke up this morning and saw that it was raining, I wondered how much snow was measured before then.  Since there is no record of any snow measurements on the Upton website during that time, perhaps they viewed the overnight snow as irrelevant, which I don't understand why.

Now, I did go near the Belvedere Castle at Central Park around 6:40 PM and my measurement came in the 2-3" range, which is consistent with what the measurement was at the Conservancy from the 7 PM update.  Of course, it appears that due to the heavy, wet nature of this snow that this was melting and compacting, it makes me wonder why we never got a mid-morning snow report.

After 7 PM, an additional 0.18" qpf fell.  Using the aforementioned 2.07:1 snowfall ratio, an additional 0.4" of snow should be added.  Now, since this was after sunset, I would think that this would be a bit higher.  The problem is, since the snow has stopped and since the next update usually doesn't come in until midnight, I wonder if the Conservancy will pick up on this added snow.

In summary:  There are reasons to believe the 7 PM 2.5" snow measurement and there are reasons not to believe it.

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Re: April 2 2018 storm 5.5 10 AM total. Will wait on Mike to verify

Post by billg315 on Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:20 pm

Good work Mike. My conclusion based on your analysis (and unlike you I am just not good at math - so I may be misstating your conclusion) is that they screwed up again but that it was only a marginal undercount - especially compared to the mega totals other locations legitimately got.
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Re: April 2 2018 storm 5.5 10 AM total. Will wait on Mike to verify

Post by Math23x7 on Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:29 pm

UPDATE: The Conservancy snow measurement did indeed add 0.4" after 7 PM, putting the snowfall up to 2.9" so that does not surprise me.

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Re: April 2 2018 storm 5.5 10 AM total. Will wait on Mike to verify

Post by billg315 on Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:30 pm

Math23x7 wrote:UPDATE: The Conservancy snow measurement did indeed add 0.4" after 7 PM, putting the snowfall up to 2.9" so that does not surprise me.
Once again showing that you are holding their feet to the fire!
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Re: April 2 2018 storm 5.5 10 AM total. Will wait on Mike to verify

Post by CPcantmeasuresnow on Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:56 pm

Math23x7 wrote:UPDATE: The Conservancy snow measurement did indeed add 0.4" after 7 PM, putting the snowfall up to 2.9" so that does not surprise me.

And also the exact same measurement from the October 29th snow storm you referenced. In the October 29th storm I received 16.0 inches and in this one 24.2. The sun angle on March 7th is a little stronger than October 29th but just marginally. Also as I remember the October 29th storm was mostly during daylight hours, as was this one.

I rest easier tonight Mike with you on the job. My legacy of snow measuring (what a legacy, I must reevaluate my life) will live on in your capable hands.

Fascinating stuff as always Mike. And as always thanks for the updates. Wish you did better in this storm hopefully Monday brings you the goods.


Last edited by CPcantmeasuresnow on Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: April 2 2018 storm 5.5 10 AM total. Will wait on Mike to verify

Post by Math23x7 on Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:43 am

UPDATE #2: Central Park's daily climatology site just updated. Central Park actually ended up with 3.2", upping it from 2.9." As using the ratios I mentioned, 3.2/1.39 ~2.30:1 snow ratio. Still, this emphasizes the influence of both the March sun an the marginal temperatures.

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Re: April 2 2018 storm 5.5 10 AM total. Will wait on Mike to verify

Post by Dtone on Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:18 am

Thats interesting, by 8pm it was mainly rain again, or nothing at all. Central Park however got a few tenths more snow.

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Re: April 2 2018 storm 5.5 10 AM total. Will wait on Mike to verify

Post by CPcantmeasuresnow on Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:16 am

8.4 inch final total at Central Park.

Sorry but I'm just not buying the 0.2 inches at Central Park after midnight.

There were observation of moderate snow after midnight and it snowed light to moderate for at least 4 more hours there so the chances that is right are near 0. Kind of like what they measured.
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Re: April 2 2018 storm 5.5 10 AM total. Will wait on Mike to verify

Post by Dtone on Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:18 am

CPcantmeasuresnow wrote:8.4 inch final total at Central Park.

Sorry but I'm just not buying the 0.2 inches at Central Park after midnight.

There were observation of moderate snow after midnight and it snowed light to moderate for at least 4 more hours there so the chances that is right are near 0. Kind of like what they measured.

Obviously I cant say for sure, but the 0.2" additional measurement seems plausible. I was getting light to moderate snow for hours before I went to sleep and it didn't amount to much extra. Steady but non accumulating snow. I did see an additional coating this morning but that's it. Obs did show light snow through early morn hours but for me it didn't amount to more than a trace to few tenths of an inch of actual acclumation for me.

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Re: April 2 2018 storm 5.5 10 AM total. Will wait on Mike to verify

Post by CPcantmeasuresnow on Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:45 am

Dtone wrote:
CPcantmeasuresnow wrote:8.4 inch final total at Central Park.

Sorry but I'm just not buying the 0.2 inches at Central Park after midnight.

There were observation of moderate snow after midnight and it snowed light to moderate for at least 4 more hours there so the chances that is right are near 0. Kind of like what they measured.

Obviously I cant say for sure, but the 0.2" additional measurement seems plausible. I was getting light to moderate snow for hours before I went to sleep and it didn't amount to much extra. Steady but non accumulating snow. I did see an additional coating this morning but that's it. Obs did show light snow through early morn hours but for me it didn't amount to more than a trace to few tenths of an inch of actual acclumation for me.

Tanks Dtone, maybe they got it right then.
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Re: April 2 2018 storm 5.5 10 AM total. Will wait on Mike to verify

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