Central Park totals worse than ever.

Public Information Statement
Spotter Reports
National Weather Service New York NY
354 PM EST Thu Jan 04 2018

The following are unofficial observations taken during the past 3
hours for the storm that has been affecting our region. Appreciation
is extended to highway departments, cooperative observers, Skywarn
spotters and media for these reports. This summary also is available
on our home page at weather.gov/nyc

********************STORM TOTAL SNOWFALL********************

LOCATION          STORM TOTAL     TIME/DATE   COMMENTS
                    SNOWFALL           OF
                    /INCHES/   MEASUREMENT

CONNECTICUT

...Fairfield County...
  Stratford             13.2   308 PM  1/04  Public
  Monroe                13.0   307 PM  1/04  Public
  Wilton                10.5   257 PM  1/04  Newspaper
  New Canaan            10.4   315 PM  1/04  Trained Spotter
  Weston                10.2   150 PM  1/04  Trained Spotter
  Ridgefield             9.0   215 PM  1/04  Public
  Bridgeport Airport     8.0   100 PM  1/04  Co-Op Observer
  Bethel                 7.5   115 PM  1/04  Trained Spotter
  Brookfield             6.4   115 PM  1/04  CoCoRaHS

...Middlesex County...
  Killingworth           8.0   147 PM  1/04  Trained Spotter

...New Haven County...
  Branford              12.5   230 PM  1/04  Trained Spotter
  Seymour               12.0   324 PM  1/04  Public
  Milford               11.6   120 PM  1/04  Public
  Cheshire              11.4   328 PM  1/04  Trained Spotter
  North Haven           10.0   315 PM  1/04  Trained Spotter
  Bethany                9.5   115 PM  1/04  Public
  Northford              8.7   108 PM  1/04  Trained Spotter
  East Wallingford       8.5   105 PM  1/04  Trained Spotter
  Southbury              8.0   100 PM  1/04  Fire Dept/Rescue

...New London County...
  Ledyard Center        10.5   313 PM  1/04  Public
  Gales Ferry            8.5   247 PM  1/04  Trained Spotter
  Norwich                8.5   200 PM  1/04  CoCoRaHS
  Stonington             8.0   209 PM  1/04  CoCoRaHS
  2 SSE Shewville        8.0   315 PM  1/04  Trained Spotter

NEW JERSEY

...Bergen County...
  Haworth                8.1   315 PM  1/04  Public
  Westwood               6.2   120 PM  1/04  Trained Spotter
  Rutherford             5.5   100 PM  1/04  Amateur Radio
  Ridgewood              5.5   300 PM  1/04  Trained Spotter
  Hasbrouck Heights      4.5   100 PM  1/04  Amateur Radio
  Montvale               4.0  1255 PM  1/04  Amateur Radio

...Hudson County...
  Hoboken                8.8   346 PM  1/04  Trained Spotter

...Passaic County...
  Pompton Lakes          3.0   100 PM  1/04  Emergency Manager

...Union County...
  Newark Airport         6.6   100 PM  1/04  FAA Observer

NEW YORK

...Bronx County...
  Bedford Park          11.2   330 PM  1/04  Public
  Morris Park           10.1   250 PM  1/04  Public

...Kings County...
  Brooklyn              11.5   219 PM  1/04  CoCoRaHS
  Borough Park           9.0   300 PM  1/04  Amateur Radio
  Fort Hamilton          7.1   100 PM  1/04  CoCoRaHS

...Nassau County...
  Baldwin               15.1   245 PM  1/04  Amateur Radio
  Carle Place           13.7   230 PM  1/04  Amateur Radio
  Jericho               12.0   346 PM  1/04  Public
  Old Brookville         8.0   309 PM  1/04  Public
  Glen Head              8.0   146 PM  1/04  Fire Dept/Rescue

...New York County...
  Stuyvesant Town        9.0   100 PM  1/04  CoCoRaHS
  Manhattan              9.0   210 PM  1/04  CoCoRaHS
  Central Park           7.8   100 PM  1/04  Park Conservancy
  Greenwich Village      6.0   305 PM  1/04  CoCoRaHS

...Orange County...
  Salisbury Mills        8.0   329 PM  1/04  Public
  Monroe                 7.5   301 PM  1/04  Trained Spotter
  Vails Gate             6.0   241 PM  1/04  Public
  Mount Hope             4.0   110 PM  1/04  Trained Spotter

...Queens County...
  Queens                13.6   316 PM  1/04  CoCoRaHS
  Rego Park             12.0   315 PM  1/04  Trained Spotter
  Little Neck            9.5   344 PM  1/04  Trained Spotter
  Rego Park              8.0   100 PM  1/04  CoCoRaHS
  Flushing               7.5   258 PM  1/04  Trained Spotter
  Whitestone             7.3   230 PM  1/04  Amateur Radio
  NYC/JFK Airport        6.2   100 PM  1/04  FAA Observer
  NYC/LaGuardia Airpor   5.2   103 PM  1/04  FAA Observer

...Richmond County...
  Great Kills           10.0   345 PM  1/04  Public

...Rockland County...
  Nyack                  7.0   247 PM  1/04  Public
  Spring Valley          5.0   310 PM  1/04  Public

...Suffolk County...
  Sayville              14.6   343 PM  1/04  Public
  Islip Airport         13.6   100 PM  1/04  FAA Observer
  Patchogue             12.5   259 PM  1/04  NWS Employee
  Commack               12.4   330 PM  1/04  Public
  Medford               12.3   115 PM  1/04  Co-Op Observer
  Mattituck             11.7   315 PM  1/04  Trained Spotter
  South Huntington      11.6   246 PM  1/04  Trained Spotter
  Calverton             11.0   150 PM  1/04  Co-Op Observer
  Saint James           10.7   200 PM  1/04  Public
  North Babylon         10.6   100 PM  1/04  Public
  Farmingville          10.5   242 PM  1/04  Trained Spotter
  Ridge                  8.2   304 PM  1/04  CoCoRaHS

...Westchester County...
  Larchmont              9.5   230 PM  1/04  Public
  Yonkers                9.3   327 PM  1/04  Public
  Armonk                 8.5   207 PM  1/04  CoCoRaHS
  Mount Kisco            8.0   302 PM  1/04  Trained Spotter
  Ardsley                7.5   300 PM  1/04  Public

No 7PM update yet.

Still stuck at 7.8 inches in CPK, 5.2 at LGA, and 6.4 at JFK, but Newark has 12.7 and Manhattan was under the heavier bands all day. Losing hope here.

By the time they report accurately, if they ever do, the whole world will think NYC received 5.2 to 7.8 inches of snow when we all know it's 10-12 inches around the city.

I've asked the question till I'm blue in the face, but what is so hard about accurately measuring snow? More importantly why does it bother me so much? Always has and always will.

Site__1 PM_7 PM_Diff.
EWR _6.6"_8.4"_1.8"
JFK__6.2"__8.0"_1.8"
LGA__5.2"_7.4"_2.2"
CPK__7.8"_9.8"_2.0"

9.8" just about what I measured while it was still snowing. By my count it's reasonable.

LGA is still odd, but I guess this is as close as we’ll get to good.

Math23x7 wrote:Site__1 PM_7 PM_Diff.
EWR _6.6"_8.4"_1.8"
JFK__6.2"__8.0"_1.8"
LGA__5.2"_7.4"_2.2"
CPK__7.8"_9.8"_2.0"

9.8" just about what I measured while it was still snowing.  By my count it's reasonable.

Nice Mike thanks.

They all look reasonable now except of course LGA but who cares, one battle at a time.

With 9.8 inches today in Central Park this storm now becomes the 67th largest snowstorm of all time in NYC. Tied with 3 other storms for that position.

CPcantmeasuresnow wrote:

Math23x7 wrote:Site__1 PM_7 PM_Diff.
EWR _6.6"_8.4"_1.8"
JFK__6.2"__8.0"_1.8"
LGA__5.2"_7.4"_2.2"
CPK__7.8"_9.8"_2.0"

9.8" just about what I measured while it was still snowing.  By my count it's reasonable.

Nice Mike thanks.

They all look reasonable now except of course LGA but who cares, one battle at a time.

With 9.8 inches today in Central Park this storm now becomes the 67th largest snowstorm of all time in NYC. Tied with 3 other storms for that position.

I've heard from people today that not only is the LGA total ridiculous but the JFK total is just as bad. How comical that one of the few times Central Park is close to accurate the other two stations in NYC fail by several inches and the NWS lets it go, smh.

LGA&JFKCantmeasuresnow

Have you written DeBlasio. If you say they won’t be able to claim climate change without proper snow totals, he may be willing to help

Scullybutcher wrote:Have you written DeBlasio. If you say they won’t be able to claim climate change without proper snow totals, he may be willing to help

I would, but with all due respect to him I don't think that big, ignorant, bloviating, dumb ape can read.

For any DeBlasio fans out there I did preface my comments with all due respect.

Im in brooklyn and recieved 13

What are they measuring in the most wind exposed areas or something? Amateurs.

CPcantmeasuresnow wrote:

Scullybutcher wrote:Have you written DeBlasio. If you say they won’t be able to claim climate change without proper snow totals, he may be willing to help

I would, but with all due respect to him I don't think that big, ignorant, bloviating, dump ape can read.

For any DeBlasio fans out there I did preface my comments with all due respect.

We all saw that yellow band sit over Brooklyn and queens for 2 hours dropping 2-3 inches per hour. Did they?

devsman wrote:We all saw that yellow band sit over Brooklyn and queens for 2 hours dropping 2-3 inches per hour. Did they?

All they needed was a ruler and a competent individual to wield it. I guess it wasn't in the budget.

It's beyond embarrassing that the NWS has not intervened and corrected both measurements upward by several inches. This was a zookeeper type measurement when he would just let the monkeys measure. It's just unacceptable.

I mentioned this in the other thread but I took a stroll through Central Park earlier this afternoon. There was some light accumulation (likely several tenths of an inch). Hopefully the Conservancy picked up on it.

Math23x7 wrote:I mentioned this in the other thread but I took a stroll through Central Park earlier this afternoon. There was some light accumulation (likely several tenths of an inch). Hopefully the Conservancy picked up on it.

And the official CPK measurement is 0.4", which is reasonable. Other reports:

EWR: 1.0"
LGA: 0.1"
JFK: 0.2"
ISP: T
BDR: T

Math23x7 wrote:

Math23x7 wrote:I mentioned this in the other thread but I took a stroll through Central Park earlier this afternoon. There was some light accumulation (likely several tenths of an inch). Hopefully the Conservancy picked up on it.

And the official CPK measurement is 0.4", which is reasonable.  Other reports:

EWR: 1.0"
LGA: 0.1"
JFK: 0.2"
ISP: T
BDR: T

You straightened their asses out CP, NEVER saw this kind of efficiency from that crew!!!! Remain vigilant, though ,as we all will making sure they stay on the straight and narrow!

Haven't talked to anyone in the city all day but could that 1.3 inches in Central Park be correct?

In terms of surface temperatures, this storm has similarities to the 10/29/11 snow event.  In that event, 1.79" of liquid precipitation fell as snow (which using the 10:1 ratio would be 17.9" of snow).  But because temperatures were in the 33-34 degree range for much of the storm and the temperature never went below 33 degrees, the official snow measurement was 2.9".  Which makes it a ~1.62:1 snow ratio storm.  Areas north and west of the city, which were a tad colder, saw much higher snow amounts.

Now, through 7 PM, 1.21" of liquid precipitation fell as snow.  The lowest temperature was 33 degrees, just like 10/29/11.  Also, we had a good chunk of the snow fall during the day under the March sun.  With the official snowfall measurement through 7 PM of 2.5", the snow ratio would be ~2.07:1.  I think the reason why the ratio was a tad higher today than it was from 10/29/11 is that today's snow came at a bit higher intensity than that one.  

That being said, late last night, it snowed for several hours through 8 AM for 0.12" liquid precipitation (much of it before daybreak) before both dry air and rain occurred for several hours mid-morning.  The CPK snow measurement as of 1 PM was 0.5".  It was snowing heavily leading up to it so I would think that all of the snow the Conservancy measured came after the brief rain period.  When I woke up this morning and saw that it was raining, I wondered how much snow was measured before then.  Since there is no record of any snow measurements on the Upton website during that time, perhaps they viewed the overnight snow as irrelevant, which I don't understand why.

Now, I did go near the Belvedere Castle at Central Park around 6:40 PM and my measurement came in the 2-3" range, which is consistent with what the measurement was at the Conservancy from the 7 PM update.  Of course, it appears that due to the heavy, wet nature of this snow that this was melting and compacting, it makes me wonder why we never got a mid-morning snow report.

After 7 PM, an additional 0.18" qpf fell.  Using the aforementioned 2.07:1 snowfall ratio, an additional 0.4" of snow should be added.  Now, since this was after sunset, I would think that this would be a bit higher.  The problem is, since the snow has stopped and since the next update usually doesn't come in until midnight, I wonder if the Conservancy will pick up on this added snow.

In summary:  There are reasons to believe the 7 PM 2.5" snow measurement and there are reasons not to believe it.

Good work Mike. My conclusion based on your analysis (and unlike you I am just not good at math - so I may be misstating your conclusion) is that they screwed up again but that it was only a marginal undercount - especially compared to the mega totals other locations legitimately got.

UPDATE: The Conservancy snow measurement did indeed add 0.4" after 7 PM, putting the snowfall up to 2.9" so that does not surprise me.

Math23x7 wrote:UPDATE: The Conservancy snow measurement did indeed add 0.4" after 7 PM, putting the snowfall up to 2.9" so that does not surprise me.

Once again showing that you are holding their feet to the fire!

Math23x7 wrote:UPDATE: The Conservancy snow measurement did indeed add 0.4" after 7 PM, putting the snowfall up to 2.9" so that does not surprise me.

And also the exact same measurement from the October 29th snow storm you referenced. In the October 29th storm I received 16.0 inches and in this one 24.2. The sun angle on March 7th is a little stronger than October 29th but just marginally. Also as I remember the October 29th storm was mostly during daylight hours, as was this one.

I rest easier tonight Mike with you on the job. My legacy of snow measuring (what a legacy, I must reevaluate my life) will live on in your capable hands.

Fascinating stuff as always Mike. And as always thanks for the updates. Wish you did better in this storm hopefully Monday brings you the goods.

UPDATE #2: Central Park's daily climatology site just updated. Central Park actually ended up with 3.2", upping it from 2.9." As using the ratios I mentioned, 3.2/1.39 ~2.30:1 snow ratio. Still, this emphasizes the influence of both the March sun an the marginal temperatures.

Thats interesting, by 8pm it was mainly rain again, or nothing at all. Central Park however got a few tenths more snow.

8.4 inch final total at Central Park.

Sorry but I'm just not buying the 0.2 inches at Central Park after midnight.

There were observation of moderate snow after midnight and it snowed light to moderate for at least 4 more hours there so the chances that is right are near 0. Kind of like what they measured.

CPcantmeasuresnow wrote:8.4 inch final total at Central Park.

Sorry but I'm just not buying the 0.2 inches at Central Park after midnight.

There were observation of moderate snow after midnight and it snowed light to moderate for at least 4 more hours there so the chances that is right are near 0. Kind of like what they measured.

Obviously I cant say for sure, but the 0.2" additional measurement seems plausible. I was getting light to moderate snow for hours before I went to sleep and it didn't amount to much extra. Steady but non accumulating snow. I did see an additional coating this morning but that's it. Obs did show light snow through early morn hours but for me it didn't amount to more than a trace to few tenths of an inch of actual acclumation for me.

Dtone wrote:

CPcantmeasuresnow wrote:8.4 inch final total at Central Park.

Sorry but I'm just not buying the 0.2 inches at Central Park after midnight.

There were observation of moderate snow after midnight and it snowed light to moderate for at least 4 more hours there so the chances that is right are near 0. Kind of like what they measured.

Obviously I cant say for sure, but the 0.2" additional measurement seems plausible. I was getting light to moderate snow for hours before I went to sleep and it didn't amount to much extra. Steady but non accumulating snow. I did see an additional coating this morning but that's it. Obs did show light snow through early morn hours but for me it didn't amount to more than a trace to few tenths of an inch of actual acclumation for me.

Tanks Dtone, maybe they got it right then.