New York City Snowfall Average and Storms

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Re: New York City Snowfall Average and Storms

Post by Math23x7 on Sat Feb 06, 2016 5:06 pm

I know CP.  I just put these up so other people would have a better grasp.  The time periods I have differ from those that NOAA uses.  The 2010's I am referring to runs from January 1st, 2010 to December 31st, 2019.  NOAA goes from 1 to 0. Here I am going from 0 to 9.

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Re: New York City Snowfall Average and Storms

Post by CPcantmeasuresnow on Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:31 pm

Below are the running 30 year averages for snowfall from the 30 year period Jan 1938-Dec 1967 when the average was 28.6 inches and began a steady decline until the tide started to turn during the winter of 93/94 when the averages began to increase. There was a temporary halt to this increase in the late 1990's when the period of 96/97 - 99/2000 saw the worst 4 year snowfall total (a pathetic 42.4 inches) in history. Since the winter of 2000/01 the 30 year average has been on a steady increase. As I've stated earlier this should reach an average over 30 inches within the next couple of years as the snow drought 1980's are dropped from the equation.

The running 30 year snowfall average has not exceeded 30 inches since the jan 1899-Dec 1928 period. From the 1870's through 1928 every period averaged over 30 inches. One might say we're reverting back to a period 100 years ago but the big difference is the winters have become increasingly warmer than they were 100 years ago. Warmer but snowier would appear to be a dichotomy but it's happening before our eyes. An interesting time to follow weather.


Begin            End              Avg.
Jan-1938      Dec-1967      28.6
Jan-1939      Dec-1968      28.3
Jan-1940      Dec-1969      28.4
Jan-1941      Dec-1970      28.2
Jan-1942      Dec-1971      27.5
Jan-1943      Dec-1972      27.6
Jan-1944      Dec-1973      27.1
Jan-1945      Dec-1974      26.8
Jan-1946      Dec-1975      26.0
Jan-1947      Dec-1976      26.2
Jan-1948      Dec-1977      24.9
Jan-1949      Dec-1978      24.7
Jan-1950      Dec-1979      24.9
Jan-1951      Dec-1980      24.8
Jan-1952      Dec-1981      25.1
Jan-1953      Dec-1982      25.0
Jan-1954      Dec-1983      25.6
Jan-1955      Dec-1984      26.2
Jan-1956      Dec-1985      26.3
Jan-1957      Dec-1986      25.7
Jan-1958      Dec-1987      25.6
Jan-1959      Dec-1988      24.8
Jan-1960      Dec-1989      24.4
Jan-1961      Dec-1990      23.5
Jan-1962      Dec-1991      22.7
Jan-1963      Dec-1992      22.6
Jan-1964      Dec-1993      22.8
Jan-1965      Dec-1994      23.2
Jan-1966      Dec-1995      23.3
Jan-1967      Dec-1996      24.4
Jan-1968      Dec-1997      23.0
Jan-1969      Dec-1998      22.6
Jan-1970      Dec-1999      22.0
Jan-1971      Dec-2000      22.3
Jan-1972      Dec-2001      22.6
Jan-1973      Dec-2002      22.3
Jan-1974      Dec-2003      24.0
Jan-1975      Dec-2004      24.2
Jan-1976      Dec-2005      25.3
Jan-1977      Dec-2006      25.6
Jan-1978      Dec-2007      25.5
Jan-1979      Dec-2008      24.2
Jan-1980      Dec-2009      24.3
Jan-1981      Dec-2010      25.9
Jan-1982      Dec-2011      26.8
Jan-1983      Dec-2012      26.2
Jan-1984      Dec-2013      26.4
Jan-1985      Dec-2014      27.0
Jan-1986      Dec-2015      28.0
Jan-1987      Dec-2016      28.6

I included the 30 year period through December 2016 even though there are still several months to go in that period. Any snowfall from now through December 2016 will increase the 28.6 average.
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Re: New York City Snowfall Average and Storms

Post by docstox12 on Sun Feb 07, 2016 7:01 am

Examining all this great data put up by Mike and CP, it is very clear the snowiest decades were the 1870,s, 1880,s,1890's, 1910's and 1940's, all ancient NY history.

Yep, those old timers in their 70's and 80's I talked to in the 1950's and 1960's, in their 70's and 80's age wise,were absolutely correct.It DID snow a lot more in the old days.Even this last period we think was so snowy, 2000-2016, pales in comparison.Facts ARE stubborn things,man!
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Re: New York City Snowfall Average and Storms

Post by CPcantmeasuresnow on Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:15 am

docstox12 wrote:Examining all this great data put up by Mike and CP, it is very clear the snowiest decades were the 1870,s, 1880,s,1890's, 1910's and 1940's, all ancient NY history.

Yep, those old timers in their 70's and 80's I talked to in the 1950's and 1960's, in their 70's and 80's age wise,were absolutely correct.It DID snow a lot more in the old days.Even this last period we think was so snowy, 2000-2016, pales in comparison.Facts ARE stubborn things,man!

You did omit the 1960's Doc, they rank in the top 5 snowiest decades ever. Also the 1960's were a much colder period than we see now. The average December through February temperature in NYC in the 1960's was 32.7, the 1970's 33.8, and then the warm up really began. The worst and most snow starved decade ever the 1980's saw a December through February average of 35.6, the 1990's 35.9.

We seem to have slowed that upward temperature trend in the 2000-2016's. The 2000's was back down a bit to 35.1 but so far the 2010's including this year are a record breaking 36.4. The dichotomy I spoke of occurs in the 2010's where snowfall is near the levels of the late 1800's but with average winter temperatures 4-5 degrees higher on average.

Consider that the average meterological winter (Dec-Feb) in NYC from 1870-1930 saw an average temperature of 32.1 degrees, contrast that to the last 3 decades. Quite a difference for a 3 month average.

Like I said an interesting time to live if you're a weather enthusiast.
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Re: New York City Snowfall Average and Storms

Post by docstox12 on Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:23 am

True that on the 60's, CP, but I just picked the top 5.Glad I lived through the 60's, anyway.Big snowstorms I remember were Dec 1960, Jan 1961, Feb 1961, Jan 1964, Jan or feb 1967 and the Lindsay snowstorm Feb 1969.
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Re: New York City Snowfall Average and Storms

Post by CPcantmeasuresnow on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:29 pm

Thought I would throw in some stats I picked up from the famous Uncle W today on another forum.

He took the 28 warmest winters in NYC and listed them with snowfall, biggest storms those years and lowest minimum. This season depsite being the second warmest ever has one of the largest seasonal snowfall and the lowest minimum temperature. What are the odds?

Also 12 of the 28 warmest winters have occurred since 1990 which goes hand in hand with what I've been posting this week about how mild our winters, comparatively speaking, have become vs. our recent past.

The 28 winters listed are in the top 20% warmest of all time and most on the list are in the 36.5-37.5 range, again showing how historically warm at 41.0 degrees this winter is.

Also of note my all time worst winter ever 2001/02 had the highest minimum temperature ever of 19 in NYC and almost became the first winter in NYC to not at least get into the teens. That winter ended as the warmest ever with an average of 41.5. This winter which has an average temp of 41.0 and will be the second warmest ever had a low of -1. Another example of just how unique this winter was. Yet I still hate it.

Uncle W's stats below.


...this is a list of the 28 warmest winters in NYC...2015-16 has the coldest minimum...1948-49 has the most snowfall...2015-16 is the third snowiest with the second heaviest snowfall...8 of the 28 winters had a snowstorm 10" or more...14 of 28 had at least a 6" storm...4 of 28 had less than 10" for the season...

winter.....ave temp...min temp...30 day snow...total snow...4" snows or largest snow...

1879-80....38.5............7......................................22.7"

1889-90....37.9............7...............17.0"...............24.3"..........6.0".....6.0".....4.0"

1897-98....36.5............8.................8.9"...............21.1"..........5.0"

1905-06....36.7............7...............11.5"...............20.0"..........6.0".....6.5".....5.0"

1908-09....36.7............5...............11.4"...............20.3"..........5.1".....4.0"

1912-13....37.2..........11...............11.5"...............15.3"........11.4"

1918-19....36.6..........10.................2.7"................3.8"..........1.4"

1931-32....40.1..........15.................2.1"................5.3"...........2.0"

1932-33....37.8..........11...............15.4"...............27.0"..........7.2"...10.0"

1936-37....37.9..........13.................8.8"...............15.6"..........5.7"

1948-49....38.5..........10...............26.8"...............46.6"..........5.3"...16.0".....4.5".....4.6".....9.4"

1949-50....37.5............6.................8.9"...............13.8"..........3.8"

1951-52....37.0............8.................8.6"...............19.7"..........5.8".....4.0"

1952-53....38.1..........12.................7.5"...............15.1"..........4.5"

1953-54....37.4............7...............12.7"...............15.8"..........8.6"

1974-75....37.5..........15...............11.3"...............13.1"..........7.8"

1982-83....37.9..........12...............23.4"...............27.2"........17.6"

1990-91....39.2..........10...............15.6"...............24.9"..........7.2".....5.7".....8.9"

1991-92....37.2..........11.................9.4"...............12.6"..........6.2"

1994-95....37.1............6...............11.6"...............11.8"........10.8"

1996-97....37.8............4.................6.1"...............10.0"..........3.5"

1997-98....39.6..........14.................5.0".................5.5"..........5.0"

1998-99....38.7............9.................6.5"...............12.7"..........4.5"

2001-02....41.5..........19.................3.5".................3.5"..........3.0"

2005-06....37.3..........14...............28.9"...............40.0"..........5.8"...26.9"

2006-07....36.5............8.................7.8"...............12.4"..........5.5"

2011-12....40.5..........13..................4.5"................7.4"..........4.3"

2012-13....36.9..........11...............13.7"...............26.1"........11.4".....4.0"

2015-16....41.0...........-1...............31.2"...............31.2"........26.8"
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Re: New York City Snowfall Average and Storms

Post by amugs on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:56 pm

WOW great stats CP from Unc the weaterh historian.
1948-49....38.5..........10...............26.8"...............46.6"..........5.3"...16.0".....4.5".....4.6".....9.4"

1949-50....37.5............6.................8.9"...............13.8"..........3.8"

1951-52....37.0............8.................8.6"...............19.7"..........5.8".....4.0"

1952-53....38.1..........12.................7.5"...............15.1"..........4.5"

1953-54....37.4............7...............12.7"...............15.8"..........8.6"

and this..............

1990-91....39.2..........10...............15.6"...............24.9"..........7.2".....5.7".....8.9"

1991-92....37.2..........11.................9.4"...............12.6"..........6.2"

1994-95....37.1............6...............11.6"...............11.8"........10.8"

1996-97....37.8............4.................6.1"...............10.0"..........3.5"

1997-98....39.6..........14.................5.0".................5.5"..........5.0"

1998-99....38.7............9.................6.5"...............12.7"..........4.5"

Two time periods that were brutal.

Go figure to balance it off 93-94 and 95-96 were awesome winters imby mixed in with 6 years of blah!!
95-96 is KING and will be until we see a repeat in our lifetime, hope so!

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Re: New York City Snowfall Average and Storms

Post by docstox12 on Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:15 pm

amugs wrote:WOW great stats CP from Unc the weaterh historian.
1948-49....38.5..........10...............26.8"...............46.6"..........5.3"...16.0".....4.5".....4.6".....9.4"

1949-50....37.5............6.................8.9"...............13.8"..........3.8"

1951-52....37.0............8.................8.6"...............19.7"..........5.8".....4.0"

1952-53....38.1..........12.................7.5"...............15.1"..........4.5"

1953-54....37.4............7...............12.7"...............15.8"..........8.6"

and this..............

1990-91....39.2..........10...............15.6"...............24.9"..........7.2".....5.7".....8.9"

1991-92....37.2..........11.................9.4"...............12.6"..........6.2"

1994-95....37.1............6...............11.6"...............11.8"........10.8"

1996-97....37.8............4.................6.1"...............10.0"..........3.5"

1997-98....39.6..........14.................5.0".................5.5"..........5.0"

1998-99....38.7............9.................6.5"...............12.7"..........4.5"

Two time periods that were brutal.

Go figure to balance it off 93-94 and 95-96 were awesome winters imby mixed in with 6 years of blah!!
95-96 is KING and will be until we see a repeat in our lifetime, hope so!

Yes, CP's excellent presentation here.

Mugsy, when you think of the 90's. the '95-'96 King Of Winter year tends to make one forget that aside from that year and '93-'94, the 90's really stunk for snow.Those last three years were brutal.That '95-'96 year, everything clicked perfectly except for one stinking situation.I had 36 inches on the level after the Jan. 1996 snowstorm and a few days later, another 8 inches fell but the damn storm turned to friggin' heavy rain.That would have at least been 12 inches or more for 4 feet on the ground!Still, the year was when everything just clicked perfectly with one snow after another.Talk about snowpacks!!!

From my own recollections, the 1960's were great for snow.

March 1960, Dec. 1960, Jan 1961, Feb. 1961, Jan 1964, Feb. 1967 and Feb. 1969 were snowstorms of over 16 inches plus.The 70's, 80's and 90's pale when compared.That 1960 decade can be compared to the last 15 years.
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Re: New York City Snowfall Average and Storms

Post by CPcantmeasuresnow on Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:20 pm

docstox12 wrote:
amugs wrote:WOW great stats CP from Unc the weaterh historian.
1948-49....38.5..........10...............26.8"...............46.6"..........5.3"...16.0".....4.5".....4.6".....9.4"

1949-50....37.5............6.................8.9"...............13.8"..........3.8"

1951-52....37.0............8.................8.6"...............19.7"..........5.8".....4.0"

1952-53....38.1..........12.................7.5"...............15.1"..........4.5"

1953-54....37.4............7...............12.7"...............15.8"..........8.6"

and this..............

1990-91....39.2..........10...............15.6"...............24.9"..........7.2".....5.7".....8.9"

1991-92....37.2..........11.................9.4"...............12.6"..........6.2"

1994-95....37.1............6...............11.6"...............11.8"........10.8"

1996-97....37.8............4.................6.1"...............10.0"..........3.5"

1997-98....39.6..........14.................5.0".................5.5"..........5.0"

1998-99....38.7............9.................6.5"...............12.7"..........4.5"

Two time periods that were brutal.

Go figure to balance it off 93-94 and 95-96 were awesome winters imby mixed in with 6 years of blah!!
95-96 is KING and will be until we see a repeat in our lifetime, hope so!

Yes, CP's excellent presentation here.

Mugsy, when you think of the 90's. the '95-'96 King Of Winter year tends to make one forget that aside from that year and '93-'94, the 90's really stunk for snow.Those last three years were brutal.That '95-'96 year, everything clicked perfectly except for one stinking situation.I had 36 inches on the level after the Jan. 1996 snowstorm and a few days later, another 8 inches fell but the damn storm turned to friggin' heavy rain.That would have at least been 12 inches or more for 4 feet on the ground!Still, the year was when everything just clicked perfectly with one snow after another.Talk about snowpacks!!!

From my own recollections, the 1960's were great for snow.

March 1960, Dec. 1960, Jan 1961, Feb. 1961, Jan 1964, Feb. 1967 and Feb. 1969 were snowstorms of over 16 inches plus.The 70's, 80's and 90's pale when compared.That 1960 decade can be compared to the last 15 years.

The 1960's were the fifth snowiest decade on record the other 4 mostly in the late 1880's and early 1900's. A cold decade too Doc. Average Dec through Feb temps in NYC were 32.6 in the 1960's and even though less snow in the 1970's the average winter temp was 33.7, compare that to this years 41.0. A night and day difference, that's why we skated on the lakes for at least a couple of months straight back then. Now it's a year to year proposition it seems.
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Re: New York City Snowfall Average and Storms

Post by amugs on Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:29 pm

docstox12 wrote:
amugs wrote:WOW great stats CP from Unc the weaterh historian.
1948-49....38.5..........10...............26.8"...............46.6"..........5.3"...16.0".....4.5".....4.6".....9.4"

1949-50....37.5............6.................8.9"...............13.8"..........3.8"

1951-52....37.0............8.................8.6"...............19.7"..........5.8".....4.0"

1952-53....38.1..........12.................7.5"...............15.1"..........4.5"

1953-54....37.4............7...............12.7"...............15.8"..........8.6"

and this..............

1990-91....39.2..........10...............15.6"...............24.9"..........7.2".....5.7".....8.9"

1991-92....37.2..........11.................9.4"...............12.6"..........6.2"

1994-95....37.1............6...............11.6"...............11.8"........10.8"

1996-97....37.8............4.................6.1"...............10.0"..........3.5"

1997-98....39.6..........14.................5.0".................5.5"..........5.0"

1998-99....38.7............9.................6.5"...............12.7"..........4.5"

Two time periods that were brutal.

Go figure to balance it off 93-94 and 95-96 were awesome winters imby mixed in with 6 years of blah!!
95-96 is KING and will be until we see a repeat in our lifetime, hope so!

Yes, CP's excellent presentation here.

Mugsy, when you think of the 90's. the '95-'96 King Of Winter year tends to make one forget that aside from that year and '93-'94, the 90's really stunk for snow.Those last three years were brutal.That '95-'96 year, everything clicked perfectly except for one stinking situation.I had 36 inches on the level after the Jan. 1996 snowstorm and a few days later, another 8 inches fell but the damn storm turned to friggin' heavy rain.That would have at least been 12 inches or more for 4 feet on the ground!Still, the year was when everything just clicked perfectly with one snow after another.Talk about snowpacks!!!

From my own recollections, the 1960's were great for snow.

March 1960, Dec. 1960, Jan 1961, Feb. 1961, Jan 1964, Feb. 1967 and Feb. 1969 were snowstorms of over 16 inches plus.The 70's, 80's and 90's pale when compared.That 1960 decade can be compared to the last 15 years.

Yes indeed Doc and it is what I discussed in my banter thread post from yesterday about the ebb and flow of teh cycle we are in between the glacial extent and contraction period from what I have been reading about - quite fascinating. Could be a roller coaster until one day teh PV explodes and we have teh ring of fire implode and then we'll be living on OTI and saying a prayer our buts can survive! See one issue we do have going back in times of temp is that until the 50's the city was a decently rural city with many farms and woodlands and teh surrounding was very rural in comparison to todays urban heat concrete furnace. We wold need an expert on this thermodynamics of materials to give us some insight as to how much this has played in the increase of temps possibly in this area. it is a known and scientific fact that these materials hold the heat in among st the myriad of utilities that run underground as well as above ground that add to the heat from this.

Anyway great presentation CP and lets hope we can somehow reverse this trend.

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Re: New York City Snowfall Average and Storms

Post by docstox12 on Fri Feb 26, 2016 2:54 pm

CPcantmeasuresnow wrote:
docstox12 wrote:
amugs wrote:WOW great stats CP from Unc the weaterh historian.
1948-49....38.5..........10...............26.8"...............46.6"..........5.3"...16.0".....4.5".....4.6".....9.4"

1949-50....37.5............6.................8.9"...............13.8"..........3.8"

1951-52....37.0............8.................8.6"...............19.7"..........5.8".....4.0"

1952-53....38.1..........12.................7.5"...............15.1"..........4.5"

1953-54....37.4............7...............12.7"...............15.8"..........8.6"

and this..............

1990-91....39.2..........10...............15.6"...............24.9"..........7.2".....5.7".....8.9"

1991-92....37.2..........11.................9.4"...............12.6"..........6.2"

1994-95....37.1............6...............11.6"...............11.8"........10.8"

1996-97....37.8............4.................6.1"...............10.0"..........3.5"

1997-98....39.6..........14.................5.0".................5.5"..........5.0"

1998-99....38.7............9.................6.5"...............12.7"..........4.5"

Two time periods that were brutal.

Go figure to balance it off 93-94 and 95-96 were awesome winters imby mixed in with 6 years of blah!!
95-96 is KING and will be until we see a repeat in our lifetime, hope so!

Yes, CP's excellent presentation here.

Mugsy, when you think of the 90's. the '95-'96 King Of Winter year tends to make one forget that aside from that year and '93-'94, the 90's really stunk for snow.Those last three years were brutal.That '95-'96 year, everything clicked perfectly except for one stinking situation.I had 36 inches on the level after the Jan. 1996 snowstorm and a few days later, another 8 inches fell but the damn storm turned to friggin' heavy rain.That would have at least been 12 inches or more for 4 feet on the ground!Still, the year was when everything just clicked perfectly with one snow after another.Talk about snowpacks!!!

From my own recollections, the 1960's were great for snow.

March 1960, Dec. 1960, Jan 1961, Feb. 1961, Jan 1964, Feb. 1967 and Feb. 1969 were snowstorms of over 16 inches plus.The 70's, 80's and 90's pale when compared.That 1960 decade can be compared to the last 15 years.

The 1960's were the fifth snowiest decade on record the other 4 mostly in the late 1880's and early 1900's. A cold decade too Doc. Average Dec through Feb temps in NYC were 32.6 in the 1960's and even though less snow in the 1970's the average winter temp was 33.7, compare that to this years 41.0. A night and day difference, that's why we skated on the lakes for at least a couple of months straight back then. Now it's a year to year proposition it seems.

CP I remember a subfreezing stretch of 15 days or so from mid January 1961 to early February.That 1960-1961 winter had wicked cold PLUS three major snowstorms, 20 inches in Dec, 16 inches in Jan 1961 and 22 or 24 inches in Feb.The best winter for me until 1995-1996 for sure.So glad I was 10 years old starting in 1960 to appreciate that decade.
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Re: New York City Snowfall Average and Storms

Post by docstox12 on Fri Feb 26, 2016 2:56 pm

amugs wrote:
docstox12 wrote:
amugs wrote:WOW great stats CP from Unc the weaterh historian.
1948-49....38.5..........10...............26.8"...............46.6"..........5.3"...16.0".....4.5".....4.6".....9.4"

1949-50....37.5............6.................8.9"...............13.8"..........3.8"

1951-52....37.0............8.................8.6"...............19.7"..........5.8".....4.0"

1952-53....38.1..........12.................7.5"...............15.1"..........4.5"

1953-54....37.4............7...............12.7"...............15.8"..........8.6"

and this..............

1990-91....39.2..........10...............15.6"...............24.9"..........7.2".....5.7".....8.9"

1991-92....37.2..........11.................9.4"...............12.6"..........6.2"

1994-95....37.1............6...............11.6"...............11.8"........10.8"

1996-97....37.8............4.................6.1"...............10.0"..........3.5"

1997-98....39.6..........14.................5.0".................5.5"..........5.0"

1998-99....38.7............9.................6.5"...............12.7"..........4.5"

Two time periods that were brutal.

Go figure to balance it off 93-94 and 95-96 were awesome winters imby mixed in with 6 years of blah!!
95-96 is KING and will be until we see a repeat in our lifetime, hope so!

Yes, CP's excellent presentation here.

Mugsy, when you think of the 90's. the '95-'96 King Of Winter year tends to make one forget that aside from that year and '93-'94, the 90's really stunk for snow.Those last three years were brutal.That '95-'96 year, everything clicked perfectly except for one stinking situation.I had 36 inches on the level after the Jan. 1996 snowstorm and a few days later, another 8 inches fell but the damn storm turned to friggin' heavy rain.That would have at least been 12 inches or more for 4 feet on the ground!Still, the year was when everything just clicked perfectly with one snow after another.Talk about snowpacks!!!

From my own recollections, the 1960's were great for snow.

March 1960, Dec. 1960, Jan 1961, Feb. 1961, Jan 1964, Feb. 1967 and Feb. 1969 were snowstorms of over 16 inches plus.The 70's, 80's and 90's pale when compared.That 1960 decade can be compared to the last 15 years.

Yes indeed Doc and it is what I discussed in my banter thread post from yesterday about the ebb and flow of teh cycle we are in between the glacial extent and contraction period from what I have been reading about - quite fascinating. Could be a roller coaster until one day teh PV explodes and we have teh ring of fire implode and then we'll be living on OTI and saying a prayer our buts can survive! See one issue we do have going back in times of temp is that until the 50's the city was a decently rural city with many farms and woodlands and teh surrounding was very rural in comparison to todays urban heat concrete furnace. We wold need an expert on this thermodynamics of materials to give us some insight as to how much this has played in the increase of temps possibly in this area. it is a known and scientific fact that these materials hold the heat in among st the myriad of utilities that run underground as well as above ground that add to the heat from this.

Anyway great presentation CP and lets hope we can somehow reverse this trend.

Finally, an explanation why all the major snowstorms have been going S and E.They are seeking that warm City and LI air to feed on,LOL!
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Re: New York City Snowfall Average and Storms

Post by CPcantmeasuresnow on Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:16 pm

[quote="docstox12"][quote="CPcantmeasuresnow"][quote="docstox12"]
amugs wrote:WOW great stats CP from Unc the weaterh historian.

CP I remember a subfreezing stretch of 15 days or so from mid January 1961 to early February.That 1960-1961 winter had wicked cold PLUS three major snowstorms, 20 inches in Dec, 16 inches in Jan 1961 and 22 or 24 inches in Feb.The best winter for me until 1995-1996 for sure.So glad I was 10 years old starting in 1960 to appreciate that decade.


Doc, you have an incredible memory. Since I was born in 61 I have no memory of it but I do have the stats from Poughkeepsie which is the most reliable and oldest HV reporting station for temperature at least, recording snow they are actually worse than the zookeeper.

During the stretch you speak of in January 1961 the HV recorded numerous double digit sub zeros that month but there was one stretch of like 6 days in a row culminating in an all time recording breaking HV low of -30 one morning. It was said by many although I've never verified it, that gunshot sounds were heard throughout the night which they later found out was the sap freezing in many of the maple trees expanding inside the trees and bursting.

Makes even what we had in January 94 when I recorded -23 and Poughkeepsie -22 pale in comparison.
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Re: New York City Snowfall Average and Storms

Post by docstox12 on Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:26 pm

CP, in life you remember all the things you love and that Blizzard of Dec 1960 started a lifelong love affair with major winter snowstorms in our area.I can still see the first flake of that storm falling observing out my Sisiter's bedroom window that day.The addiction is so rampant that here I am, a 65 year old man reminiscing about things that happened 55 years ago,LOL!

You verify with your excellent data as usual, the extreme cold period of that Jan 1961 to Feb 1961 subfreezing stretch.
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Re: New York City Snowfall Average and Storms

Post by Dtone on Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:27 pm

Growing up as a kid..about mid 80s and the 90s, that how I've based my expectations of an avg winter. I just came to accept NYC is not a snowy place. It can snow alot but more often than not it won't, and all snow events are rare.  A persistent snowpack not common either.  Only snow day of my life was in 96. It was like winning the lotto that day.
Then the 2000s came and we had 4 straight 40"+ winters when there was never more than 2 straight in history before that.  Then a few more, and double digit snowfalls were happening with semi regularity.  All snow events without rain/mix can happen frequently down to the city/coast after all.
Ill take the more recent winter patterns even if mild winters are the price. End of the day i want the snow, so sunny days in the 20s dont mean too much.
It's really true what you grew up with shapes your expectations now.  I used to say way back if i could get a 96 type storm again i wont complain, i ended up with a few...but now we almost come to expect it.

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Re: New York City Snowfall Average and Storms

Post by CPcantmeasuresnow on Sat Feb 27, 2016 1:29 pm

Thought I would throw this in here as an oddity I saw in the temperature records today.

The average temperature in NYC on Febraury 28th is 38 degrees and on Febraury 29th it is 33 degrees. On March first it's back to 38 degrees.

So every four years on leap year that one day averages 5 degrees colder than the day before or after. Nothing more than the luck of the draw I know but it still is odd. Looks like this year will raise that February 29th average quite a bit.
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Re: New York City Snowfall Average and Storms

Post by TheAresian on Sat Feb 27, 2016 3:20 pm

I did a quick search for leap years on a site called http://ggweather.com/enso/oni.htm. It breaks down the El Ninos and La Ninas by year. I compared the leap year stats with Unc's stats. While it's apparent that winters are trending warmers, especially over the last 20 years or so, leap years over those same 20 years have almost exclusively been La Nina years with the exception of 2015-16 and 2003-4 which was listed as a year in which neither took place.

Would the combination of warmer winters and the recent trend of La Nina/leap year co-occurrences skew the data excessively in favor of bigger temperature differences as opposed to non-leap years? I'm not wording this exactly the way I want to but I don't know the statistical terms to explain sufficiently.
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Re: New York City Snowfall Average and Storms

Post by CPcantmeasuresnow on Sat Feb 27, 2016 8:18 pm

TheAresian wrote:I did a quick search for leap years on a site called http://ggweather.com/enso/oni.htm. It breaks down the El Ninos and La Ninas by year. I compared the leap year stats with Unc's stats. While it's apparent that winters are trending warmers, especially over the last 20 years or so, leap years over those same 20 years have almost exclusively been La Nina years with the exception of 2015-16 and 2003-4 which was listed as a year in which neither took place.

Would the combination of warmer winters and the recent trend of La Nina/leap year co-occurrences skew the data excessively in favor of bigger temperature differences as opposed to non-leap years? I'm not wording this exactly the way I want to but I don't know the statistical terms to explain sufficiently.

Interesting Aresian. I'm not exactly sure how Lanina years play out temperature wise if I'm not mistaken they are usually colder so if that's the case that would probably explain it. It's odd that every leap year till this one has been coming up a Lanina. Just an odd coincidence I Suppose.
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Re: New York City Snowfall Average and Storms

Post by docstox12 on Sun Feb 28, 2016 1:41 pm

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/climate-weather/photos/6-snowstorms-that-crippled-the-east-coast/great-snow-of-1717

I never knew about this period of time from late Feb -early March 1717, when there was already 5 feet of snow on the ground and an ADDITIONAL 3 to 4 feet fell on top of that in four storms in a row.This episode makes the Blizzard of 1888 look like a snow flurry in comparison!!!
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Re: New York City Snowfall Average and Storms

Post by CPcantmeasuresnow on Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:40 pm

docstox12 wrote:http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/climate-weather/photos/6-snowstorms-that-crippled-the-east-coast/great-snow-of-1717

I never knew about this period of time from late Feb -early March 1717, when there was already 5 feet of snow on the ground and an ADDITIONAL 3 to 4 feet fell on top of that in four storms in a row.This episode makes the Blizzard of 1888 look like a snow flurry in comparison!!!

I've heard about this Doc but I never saw the details.

Even I would cry uncle at the end of this thing. I couldn't imagine what it would do to our area now, with so many people around and so many roads to clear, with almost 100 inches of snow on the ground, remarkable.

That winter would be the complete opposite of the winter of 2001/02.
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Re: New York City Snowfall Average and Storms

Post by CPcantmeasuresnow on Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:26 pm

The second warmest MET winter ever for NYC ends with a ridiculous average temperature of 41.1.

This season becomes only the tenth winter ever above 38, the fourth winter ever above 40, and the second ever above 41. We just missed setting the all time record of 41.5 in 2001/02.

3 of the 4 winters that have ended above 40 have all happened since 2001/02.

Winters with averages above 38 were extremely rare until the 1990's, only 5 happened in the first 120 years of records.
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Re: New York City Snowfall Average and Storms

Post by Dtone on Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:10 am

CPcantmeasuresnow wrote:The second warmest MET winter ever for NYC ends with a ridiculous average temperature of 41.1.

This season becomes only the tenth winter ever above 38, the fourth winter ever above 40, and the second ever above 41. We just missed setting the all time record of 41.5 in 2001/02.

3 of the 4 winters that have ended above 40 have all happened since 2001/02.

Winters with averages above 38 were extremely rare until the 1990's, only 5 happened in the first 120 years of records.



Many records set for met winter. It was mild but didn't seem like one of the mildest ever, but that Dec pushed the avgs so high it'd take a very cold Jan/Feb to get us back to normal.
https://weather.com/storms/winter/news/warmest-wettest-winter-2015-2016


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2016/03/01/february-was-earths-warmest-month-in-satellite-record/

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Re: New York City Snowfall Average and Storms

Post by CPcantmeasuresnow on Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:17 am

Dtone wrote:
CPcantmeasuresnow wrote:The second warmest MET winter ever for NYC ends with a ridiculous average temperature of 41.1.

This season becomes only the tenth winter ever above 38, the fourth winter ever above 40, and the second ever above 41. We just missed setting the all time record of 41.5 in 2001/02.

3 of the 4 winters that have ended above 40 have all happened since 2001/02.

Winters with averages above 38 were extremely rare until the 1990's, only 5 happened in the first 120 years of records.



Many records set for met winter. It was mild but didn't seem like one of the mildest ever, but that Dec pushed the avgs so high it'd take a very cold Jan/Feb to get us back to normal.
https://weather.com/storms/winter/news/warmest-wettest-winter-2015-2016


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2016/03/01/february-was-earths-warmest-month-in-satellite-record/

True to a degree Dtone. Decembers temperatures which were 13.3 degrees above normal and were more indicative of the average April around here did skew things a bit. However January ended up 1.9 degrees above normal and Febraury 2.4 degrees above normal and over a 30 day period that's fairly significant. Also consider the entire MET winter saw only 20 out of 91 days below normal.

A crappy winter no matter how you measure it despite one great blizzard and a four day cold snap. IMO the only two things that make this winter a low C High D in NYC.

I'm still annoyed at you for giving this winter a B. Very Happy
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Re: New York City Snowfall Average and Storms

Post by Dtone on Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:37 am

CPcantmeasuresnow wrote:
Dtone wrote:
CPcantmeasuresnow wrote:The second warmest MET winter ever for NYC ends with a ridiculous average temperature of 41.1.

This season becomes only the tenth winter ever above 38, the fourth winter ever above 40, and the second ever above 41. We just missed setting the all time record of 41.5 in 2001/02.

3 of the 4 winters that have ended above 40 have all happened since 2001/02.

Winters with averages above 38 were extremely rare until the 1990's, only 5 happened in the first 120 years of records.



Many records set for met winter. It was mild but didn't seem like one of the mildest ever, but that Dec pushed the avgs so high it'd take a very cold Jan/Feb to get us back to normal.
https://weather.com/storms/winter/news/warmest-wettest-winter-2015-2016


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2016/03/01/february-was-earths-warmest-month-in-satellite-record/

True to a degree Dtone. Decembers temperatures which were 13.3 degrees above normal and were more indicative of the average April around here did skew things a bit. However January ended up 1.9 degrees above normal and Febraury 2.4 degrees above normal and over a 30 day period that's fairly significant. Also consider the entire MET winter saw only 20 out of 91 days below normal.

A crappy winter no matter how you measure it despite one great blizzard and a four day cold snap. IMO the only two things that make this winter a low C High D in NYC.

I'm still annoyed at you for giving this winter a B. Very Happy

lol...well It was quite a blizzard. No dry slot, several uninterrupted hours of intense snowfall rates 2"+/hr. I went out during the height of it, that's an experience i won't forget. Other blizzards had less snow over more time. This one was all within 24 hrs, which set the 24 hr snowfall record. No guarantee I'll come across that again.
The forecasting drama leading up to it made it more rewarding too.
I'd say B- if I could.

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