Re: Wx Banter Thread 2.0

[CPcantmeasuresnow]

Happy birthday Jim, so sorry this went the way it did for LI.  I am bitter too though I guess I cannot complain but I heard next weekend? NO NO NO! I am done spring melt this lets move I cannot do this again.  If there is a storm to track count me out, I lost so much studying and stuff I should have been doing this week, and as I read I obviously was not the only one.  I rarely rant like this but this is where I am allowed to so I am let it fly, this sucked so bad, my wife lost a day of work for nothing, and you know its bad when I do not even bother to go outside.  Will not be shovel this back breaking stuff ill spin my tires till they pup to get outta my park spot. my similar reaction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jl2Tgcbnb8

Rant over!

Jman you seem to live in the snowhole of SE NYS. If you lived 20 miles due north or 20 miles southeast on the nothshore of LI you could finally experience a 30 inch snow. I still can't believe you didn't have 30 last year during the January blizzard. JFK had 30.5 inches DTONE had 30 in the Bronx and even Central Park had 27.5 and you said you had 20 from that storm? I think there's a lot of zookeeper in you, maybe a family member, or maybe it's you?

[jmanley32]

Happy birthday Jim, so sorry this went the way it did for LI.  I am bitter too though I guess I cannot complain but I heard next weekend? NO NO NO! I am done spring melt this lets move I cannot do this again.  If there is a storm to track count me out, I lost so much studying and stuff I should have been doing this week, and as I read I obviously was not the only one.  I rarely rant like this but this is where I am allowed to so I am let it fly, this sucked so bad, my wife lost a day of work for nothing, and you know its bad when I do not even bother to go outside.  Will not be shovel this back breaking stuff ill spin my tires till they pup to get outta my park spot. my similar reaction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jl2Tgcbnb8

Rant over!

Jman you seem to live in the snowhole of SE NYS. If you lived 20 miles due north or 20 miles southeast on the nothshore of LI you could finally experience a 30 inch snow. I still can't believe you didn't have 30 last year during the January blizzard. JFK had 30.5 inches DTONE had 30 in the Bronx and even Central Park had 27.5 and you said you had 20 from that storm? I think there's a lot of zookeeper in you, maybe a family member, or maybe it's you?

Wow biggest insult ever!! I know how to measure snow, yes I agree I am ina a area that sees less snow than others. I think it was like 22 or 23. I remember I was in between two bands one north one south, I think Al had a similar total to me as he lives next town over.

[track17]

I am thinking we should all move to Maine they get a ton of snow.

[SENJsnowman]

Corned Beef Update:

“The NWS (that’s the National ‘What’s-for-Lunch?’ Service) has issued a Corned Beef Watch Advisory for Coastal Ocean County, NJ. Residents are advised to be alert for a finished, ready to eat Corned Beef to overspread the lunch table before 2 pm EST.”

So, the NWS has indeed issued an advisory, but in the meantime there has been a change over from salty briny water, to a new batch of fresh water into the pot. It is appears the mixing of the roast will last for the remainder of the event. Unfortunately, this will cut into the cooking time ratio, but the additional clean QPF should yield expanded simmer times, making for a more tender finished product.

Next update will be when the pre-heating of the oven for the French Fries sends warm air aloft in the kitchen.

[jmanley32]

Happy birthday Jim, so sorry this went the way it did for LI.  I am bitter too though I guess I cannot complain but I heard next weekend? NO NO NO! I am done spring melt this lets move I cannot do this again.  If there is a storm to track count me out, I lost so much studying and stuff I should have been doing this week, and as I read I obviously was not the only one.  I rarely rant like this but this is where I am allowed to so I am let it fly, this sucked so bad, my wife lost a day of work for nothing, and you know its bad when I do not even bother to go outside.  Will not be shovel this back breaking stuff ill spin my tires till they pup to get outta my park spot. my similar reaction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jl2Tgcbnb8

Rant over!

Jman you seem to live in the snowhole of SE NYS. If you lived 20 miles due north or 20 miles southeast on the nothshore of LI you could finally experience a 30 inch snow. I still can't believe you didn't have 30 last year during the January blizzard. JFK had 30.5 inches DTONE had 30 in the Bronx and even Central Park had 27.5 and you said you had 20 from that storm? I think there's a lot of zookeeper in you, maybe a family member, or maybe it's you?

BTW almost everytime theres a line of svr t-storms as they cross hudson they split to the north and south of me, you cant make this stuff up!

[billg315]

Any flower people here? Not like people from the 60s (necessarily) but people who know about flowers? Will my perennials that were sticking their heads up but hadn't fully bloomed die under the 8-9" of sleet and snow now on top of them?

[track17]

Frank and jman what do you think do you think the weather professor I know is right and my area could get something worse than sandy?

[frank 638]

So which nor easter was better this one or super storm 93 I have to say blizzard of 93

[billg315]

Probably depends on where you sit today. For people on here who got two feet of snow - and there are a few - they'll say today. For me I'd say 1993 because I got a foot of snow in that storm and had a good long period of heavy wind driven snow before it went to sleet. Today I got a period of moderate snow, mainly before dawn, and then a back and forth between snow and sleet, mainly sleet, the rest of the day.

[Guest]

It was easily 93 for me. 27" compared to what'll likely top out between 6 and 10.

Over in the discussion thread, there was some talk about people being angry and all that comes to mind is how ignorant that is. This board studies storms like the Warren Commission examining the Zapruder film and we know how hard it is to foresee all possible outcomes. Unfortunately, most people don't care about the process and therefore have no idea that even a collection of the best computer models in the world can't arrive at a consensus. All they want is a map with a snowflake, a measurement and a temp reading. It does a disservice to all of the incredibly hard working people who do this either for a living or as a hobby.

[CPcantmeasuresnow]

Happy birthday Jim, so sorry this went the way it did for LI.  I am bitter too though I guess I cannot complain but I heard next weekend? NO NO NO! I am done spring melt this lets move I cannot do this again.  If there is a storm to track count me out, I lost so much studying and stuff I should have been doing this week, and as I read I obviously was not the only one.  I rarely rant like this but this is where I am allowed to so I am let it fly, this sucked so bad, my wife lost a day of work for nothing, and you know its bad when I do not even bother to go outside.  Will not be shovel this back breaking stuff ill spin my tires till they pup to get outta my park spot. my similar reaction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jl2Tgcbnb8

Rant over!

Jman you seem to live in the snowhole of SE NYS. If you lived 20 miles due north or 20 miles southeast on the nothshore of LI you could finally experience a 30 inch snow. I still can't believe you didn't have 30 last year during the January blizzard. JFK had 30.5 inches DTONE had 30 in the Bronx and even Central Park had 27.5 and you said you had 20 from that storm? I think there's a lot of zookeeper in you, maybe a family member, or maybe it's you?

BTW almost everytime theres a line of svr t-storms as they cross hudson they split to the north and south of me, you cant make this stuff up!

For a man that loves wind like you do that is the ultimate slap in the face. I feel your pain Zookeeper

[Guest]

I feel the same way every time a Miller B hits. It's coming, it's coming, it's coming and then..... BAM!!!! The storm reforms along the coast.

[CPcantmeasuresnow]

I am thinking we should all move to Maine they get a ton of snow.

Don't bother with Maine, upstate NY has the 3 snowiest cities in the US. Syracuse, Rochester and Buffalo rank 1, 2 & 3.

Smaller towns in the Tug Hill Plateau of NY average 200-300 inches per year.

[kalleg]

Any flower people here? Not like people from the 60s (necessarily) but people who know about flowers? Will my perennials that were sticking their heads up but hadn't fully bloomed die under the 8-9" of sleet and snow now on top of them?

Here's a pretty comprehensive blog entry about winter damage to plants:

Winter Plant Damage
GSC Garden and Snow

How your plants will fare during our bouts of winter snow and freezing temperatures depends on many factors. These include how well your plants are sheltered, the hardiness of your varieties, and the maturity of your plants. If your plants are already under stress or if they were in containers, they might sustain considerable damage. Sometimes the effects cannot be seen for months or even years. Here are some guidelines to help you minimize winter plant damage.

One of the best preventive measures to protect plants from winter damage is to do a fall application of mulch to your beds. Adding a few inches of a good organic material to the soil surface will help to insulate the roots of your plants and conserve water and keep your plants hydrated. Leaves that have fallen on site and free wood chips from arborists are a great resource for not only protecting your plants but for building healthy soil at the same time.


If snow or ice accumulates on your plants, let it melt off on its own. Removing snow can cause branches to snap back abruptly, thereby damaging the circulatory system of the plant. Snow actually has an insulating effect on plants when we encounter frigid night time temperatures. Vertical branching conifers are an exception to this advice. Many of these types of plants will bend with the weight of our heavy snows but not bounce back once the snow is gone. In this situation it is important to knock heavy snows off to allow the branches to revert to their normal position. An example of one of these plants is the ubiquitous Thuja occidentalis ‘Pyramidalis’ also called Arborvitae, seen used as screens and living fences in many northwest yards.

If a tree becomes uprooted, sometimes it can be saved if at least one third of the root system is still in the ground. Do this when the temperatures have warmed up. Prune broken branches now to avoid further tearing, but wait until spring to determine if branches are indeed dead. Pruning out live wood, especially in early spring, can further stress the tree.

Salt damage can cause twig dieback and early fall coloration. Buds and small twigs of some plant species become more prone to freezing and may be slow or fail to open in the spring. Salts can also absorb water making it unavailable to roots and thus dehydrating the plant. Be judicious when applying salt to pathways to avoid damaging your plants.

If the buds of spring bloomers have been damaged, you will get fewer flowers this year. Leaves of broadleaf evergreens often droop during cold weather, but will uncurl when it warms up. Brown leaves can be due to sun and/or wind damage; wait until mid-spring before pruning out injured foliage

Some plants, especially those in containers, may sustain root damage (roots look blackish and are often soft) because they are not as protected as plants planted directly into the soil. They might leaf out in the spring but will then wither and die. Protect potted plants by making sure the soil is well watered and the plant hydrated. Move more tender varieties to sheltered areas, being aware of the possible need to water if you are sheltering on a porch or near the house. Smaller pots can be heeled into a mulch pile in the yard for insulation or wrapped with insulating materials to protect the root system.

Sun scald is another problem, especially for trees that have been newly planted or those with smooth or thin bark. Wrap the trunk with a light-colored covering, keeping it on through the winter and into the first growing season. If a fruit tree has been damaged, remove developing fruits to prevent further stress on the tree. Monitor for signs and symptoms of insect damage.

Frozen lawns are susceptible to damage if there is a lot of foot traffic on them. Avoid walking across the lawn during frigid weather if possible. Don’t plan renovation work until early spring to avoid periods of cold weather when the lawn will be under stress.

If you sustain winter damage on your plants make sure that they then receive adequate water through spring, summer and fall. Mulch liberally; fertilize as needed, avoiding excess soluble nitrogen fertilizer. Slightly decrease water in September to encourage hardening off, but water thoroughly in October until we get a freeze. It is important for plants to be adequately hydrated when entering cold temperature extremes.

If a tree loses more than half of its branches, it may not be worth saving. If bark has been ripped, woody plants are at risk of sunscald or decay. If you need to replace a damaged tree, consider replacements that will withstand the effects of severe winter weather. Conical shaped trees and those with more horizontal branching sustain the least amount of damage. Slow growing trees (their wood is not as brittle) and those with wide branch crotches also fare better.

For future garden planning take care to site your new plants well. Tall trees should be planted far from utility lines. Site broadleaf evergreens that easily succumb to winter damage in areas where they are protected from both winter wind and sun. These include daphne, camellia, azalea, and rhododendron. Do not let them dry out, especially as fall wanes and we enter winter cold spells; protect the roots of immature shrubs with extra mulch or burlap. Avoid planting in areas that maintain winter wet or that will be in the path of falling snow or ice. Avoid planting under the eaves of houses unless you plan to water through the winter.

http://www.seattletilth.org/learn/resources-1/almanac/january/winter-plant-damage

[billg315]

Any flower people here? Not like people from the 60s (necessarily) but people who know about flowers? Will my perennials that were sticking their heads up but hadn't fully bloomed die under the 8-9" of sleet and snow now on top of them?

Here's a pretty comprehensive blog entry about winter damage to plants:

Winter Plant Damage
GSC Garden and Snow

How your plants will fare during our bouts of winter snow and freezing temperatures depends on many factors.  These include how well your plants are sheltered, the hardiness of your varieties, and the maturity of your plants. If your plants are already under stress or if they were in containers, they might sustain considerable damage.  Sometimes the effects cannot be seen for months or even years. Here are some guidelines to help you minimize winter plant damage.

One of the best preventive measures to protect plants from winter damage is to do a fall application of mulch to your beds. Adding a few inches of a good organic material to the soil surface will help to insulate the roots of your plants and conserve water and keep your plants hydrated. Leaves that have fallen on site and free wood chips from arborists are a great resource for not only protecting your plants but for building healthy soil at the same time.


If snow or ice accumulates on your plants, let it melt off on its own.  Removing snow can cause branches to snap back abruptly, thereby damaging the circulatory system of the plant. Snow actually has an insulating effect on plants when we encounter frigid night time temperatures. Vertical branching conifers are an exception to this advice. Many of these types of plants will bend with the weight of our heavy snows but not bounce back once the snow is gone. In this situation it is important to knock heavy snows off to allow the branches to revert to their normal position. An example of one of these plants is the ubiquitous Thuja occidentalis ‘Pyramidalis’ also called Arborvitae, seen used as screens and living fences in many northwest yards.

If a tree becomes uprooted, sometimes it can be saved if at least one third of the root system is still in the ground.  Do this when the temperatures have warmed up. Prune broken branches now to avoid further tearing, but wait until spring to determine if branches are indeed dead.  Pruning out live wood, especially in early spring, can further stress the tree.

Salt damage can cause twig dieback and early fall coloration.  Buds and small twigs of some plant species become more prone to freezing and may be slow or fail to open in the spring.  Salts can also absorb water making it unavailable to roots and thus dehydrating the plant. Be judicious when applying salt to pathways to avoid damaging your plants.

If the buds of spring bloomers have been damaged, you will get fewer flowers this year.  Leaves of broadleaf evergreens often droop during cold weather, but will uncurl when it warms up.  Brown leaves can be due to sun and/or wind damage; wait until mid-spring before pruning out injured foliage

Some plants, especially those in containers, may sustain root damage (roots look blackish and are often soft) because they are not as protected as plants planted directly into the soil. They might leaf out in the spring but will then wither and die. Protect potted plants by making sure the soil is well watered and the plant hydrated. Move more tender varieties to sheltered areas, being aware of the possible need to water if you are sheltering on a porch or near the house. Smaller pots can be heeled into a mulch pile in the yard for insulation or wrapped with insulating materials to protect the root system.

Sun scald is another problem, especially for trees that have been newly planted or those with smooth or thin bark. Wrap the trunk with a light-colored covering, keeping it on through the winter and into the first growing season. If a fruit tree has been damaged, remove developing fruits to prevent further stress on the tree.  Monitor for signs and symptoms of insect damage.

Frozen lawns are susceptible to damage if there is a lot of foot traffic on them. Avoid walking across the lawn during frigid weather if possible. Don’t plan renovation work until early spring to avoid periods of cold weather when the lawn will be under stress.

If you sustain winter damage on your plants make sure that they then receive adequate water through spring, summer and fall.  Mulch liberally; fertilize as needed, avoiding excess soluble nitrogen fertilizer. Slightly decrease water in September to encourage hardening off, but water thoroughly in October until we get a freeze. It is important for plants to be adequately hydrated when entering cold temperature extremes.

If a tree loses more than half of its branches, it may not be worth saving. If bark has been ripped, woody plants are at risk of sunscald or decay. If you need to replace a damaged tree, consider replacements that will withstand the effects of severe winter weather.  Conical shaped trees and those with more horizontal branching sustain the least amount of damage.  Slow growing trees (their wood is not as brittle) and those with wide branch crotches also fare better.

For future garden planning take care to site your new plants well. Tall trees should be planted far from utility lines. Site broadleaf evergreens that easily succumb to winter damage in areas where they are protected from both winter wind and sun. These include daphne, camellia, azalea, and rhododendron. Do not let them dry out, especially as fall wanes and we enter winter cold spells; protect the roots of immature shrubs with extra mulch or burlap.  Avoid planting in areas that maintain winter wet or that will be in the path of falling snow or ice. Avoid planting under the eaves of houses unless you plan to water through the winter.

http://www.seattletilth.org/learn/resources-1/almanac/january/winter-plant-damage

Thank you very much. Sounds like I just have to let the snow melt and see what happens. I think since they didn't fully bloom yet, they'll be Ok. guess I'll know in a couple weeks.

[billg315]

I have to say respectfully that I kind of feel one of the reasons there's always so much disappointment and angst on this board about winter storms is that expectations are a bit too high. When I grew up any snow over 4" was a storm. Any snow over 8" was a big storm. At least where I grew up which is essentially in this region. You didn't expect 12, 18, 24" snowstorms. If they ever happened (about three times before I turned 18 I'd estimate) they were rare and awe inspiring. Today, I hear people on here routinely complain about only getting 7, 8, 10" of snow. Incredibly some of those complaints come from people who already had 12" or more storms recently. I just shoveled - TWICE - from what I'd estimate with sleet to be an 8 or 9" storm. There's a lot of snow and sleet outside my house. My back will tell you. So will the snowman my neighbors kids just built. So will the plow drivers who just plowed me under, again. Central Park had over 7". Some people on this board had 18, 30". And yet this is a bust. A letdown. A horrible storm in a horrible winter. I don't get it. We live in the mid-Atlantic/lower Northeast, not the Rockies or northern New England. I don't begrudge anyone their right to be disappointed in any storm especially if they're in a "screw zone." But it just seems nothing is ever enough, and I really think we'd all be a little less stressed and a little happier if our expectations were more in line with the historical averages of where we live. This horrible winter? Now above average in snowfall for most. Alright. Got that off my chest. Now to shovel what just got plowed into my sidewalk.

[Dunnzoo]

I have to say respectfully that I kind of feel one of the reasons there's always so much disappointment and angst on this board about winter storms is that expectations are a bit too high. When I grew up any snow over 4" was a storm. Any snow over 8" was a big storm. At least where I grew up which is essentially in this region. You didn't expect 12, 18, 24" snowstorms. If they ever happened (about three times before I turned 18 I'd estimate) they were rare and awe inspiring. Today, I hear people on here routinely complain about only getting 7, 8, 10" of snow. Incredibly some of those complaints come from people who already had 12" or more storms recently. I just shoveled - TWICE - from what I'd estimate with sleet to be an 8 or 9" storm. There's a lot of snow and sleet outside my house. My back will tell you. So will the snowman my neighbors kids just built. So will the plow drivers who just plowed me under, again. Central Park had over 7". Some people on this board had 18, 30". And yet this is a bust. A letdown. A horrible storm in a horrible winter. I don't get it. We live in the mid-Atlantic/lower Northeast, not the Rockies or northern New England. I don't begrudge anyone their right to be disappointed in any storm especially if they're in a "screw zone." But it just seems nothing is ever enough, and I really think we'd all be a little less stressed and a little happier if our expectations were more in line with the historical averages of where we live. This horrible winter? Now above average in snowfall for most. Alright. Got that off my chest. Now to shovel what just got plowed into my sidewalk.

AMEN!

[Guest]

Speaking only for myself, one of the big reasons this winter has been a disappointment is that while the precip has been normal to above normal, snowfall has been below normal. I know I don't live in the Arctic, but when only about 1/3 of your winter months' precip is snow, it's hard to not feel a little cheated (especially when a Feb. storm brought an inch of rain, the surface temp was 34, but the 850 was a warm nose). With regards to this storm, I'm happy. On a 12-18" forecast, I might end up with 10", but that's acceptable. I'm happy for Alex in Binghamton and I feel bad for those that ended up with sleet, rain or nothing at all. Having said all of that, almost no storm was going to match the anticipation that had built up tracking this thing for the past 4 or 5 days. There's my two cents on the matter.

[track17]

I was thinking jman you were talking about your tropics thread. I hope you put it up again. One of the best threads ever. But what if we do a weather what if. We talk about what would happen if certain storm scenarios happened over the area. What you guys think could be interesting

[algae888]

cp and jon last winter's blizzard I measured 20". I was between two heavy bands. the best storms for me are. 1) valentine's 2006(I believe that was the year) most snow I ever measured, 2) blizzard of 96 and 3) pdI what was it 77 0r 76 I forget. snowed for 3 days.

[frank 638]

best blizzard i can remeber are blizzard of 96 present blizzard of 2003 blizzard of 2006 boxing day blizzard of 2010 and last year blizzard those were the great blizzards

[billg315]

Aresian, I hear you. And you may be in a different boat than some here if your snow is below normal, but NYC is now above normal, as are most of NNJ and LI I believe. That said, people can be disappointed by particular storms, or winters that underperform, that's natural. I just think sometimes people are expecting more from these storms than what realistically speaking we typically get. I mean the snow totals from this storm were impressive in most places (not the coast obviously). They only looked disappointing because people were expecting 2 feet and apparently unwilling to settle for less. I for one was expecting over a foot and got about 8", but to me 8" is a good storm so I was OK with it. I guess my real point is this: the kids next door to me didn't seem disappointed playing in the snow today. They were having a ball. And I bet they never stopped to measure it. :-)

[track17]

Living at the jersey shore for 33 year I can say 96 was great but nothing compares to Boxing Day. I had 33 inches with snow drifts over 40 inches

[billg315]

I think my best winter storm was the January 2016 blizzard. It was perfect in many regards. No mixing issues, it occurred during daytime so I could watch it, it had wind and heavy snow with whiteout conditions, and I measured 28" in my town which is my top total all-time. So that's the best for me.

[Frank_Wx]

Happy birthday to Grselig!

[billg315]

Greslig! Happy birthday! Didn't realize we had the same b-day, haha. I'm sure there will be a party in the OTI Coconut Lounge this evening!

[billg315]

This is an interesting topic for discussion. Would love to hear the thoughts of others. I find this story stunning. In a nutshell, the NWS realizes Monday afternoon their snowfall amounts are overdone (or they believe they are overdone) but doesn't reduce them because they either (and this depends on how you spin it, but I submit it's the same thing) A. Don't want to "confuse" people into thinking the storm won't be as bad; or B. Are trying to scare people into being prepared. Look, I am all for making sure people are prepared. But science is about facts and data, not trying to spin the data to achieve an outcome. I think it was incumbent on them, if they really believed totals would be lower, to say so and then to emphasize that people still need to be prepared because its still a dangerous storm. I think people are smart enough to realize they need to prepare for a storm whether it's 10" or 20". And here is the most important reason why: Many people right now have fallen into that "Oh you can't trust the forecasters" mode. As Math said yesterday, next big storm, many people may not listen to warnings. So by trying to not "confuse" people, they may have undercut their own credibility, which may be more dangerous in the long-term. It's a tough job, and I respect the work these guys do, but this is the first time I think I've seen the NWS admit to putting out a forecast they didn't really believe in. That can't happen.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_SCI_WINTER_WEATHER_FORECAST?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-03-14-17-17-34

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