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Banter Thread 6.0

nutleyblizzard wrote:I don’t wan’t to start a political war; and of all places a weather chat room, but the only way we’re going to eradicate or at the very least make this pandemic much more tolerable is to get vaccinated. My wife and I got our booster shots a few weeks ago. Nothing makes me more miffed then a non vaccinated person. A lot of people I believe followed Trump’s lead, which is strange to me since he’s vaccinated himself. Then there are other people who are scared or unsure of the vaccine’s possible side effects. Lastly there are individuals who simply don’t want to do what their told. Now I admit that the vaccination and ensuing booster shot that my wife and I received is not 100% effective. Sure we can still get sick from this dreaded disease, but rest assured I like my chances much more of avoiding serious illness with this vaccine then not.

Nuts a civilized conversation among people who are in the end looking to achieve the same thing is what needed so thank you for doing so.   First things first.  Trump has zero to do with this conversation.  And regarding the statement that "people are following Trumps lead which is weird because he is vaccinated" what are you talking about?  Trump has always promoted getting the vaccine.  Before the election he was the one over the summer 2020 who said we would have it available before the new year.  It was the current administration who claimed no way we would have it that soon, and if they did if its from Trump they would never take it.  Biden said it Pelosi, all of them.  Check you tube and you can find all sorts of videos of this.  Trump always maintained the notion that you should talk to your Dr. and people should get the vaccine if its right for them, esp those in high risk categories.  Heck that's why he got it.  Hes an old man which we know age plays a huge role in severity.  

But honestly we have to let go of Trump.  This is way beyond how you may feel of the man.  The real question is why would an unvaccinated person make you miffed?  Why do you think that the only way out of this is for "everyone" to be vaccinated? These sound like regurgitated talking points to those with the narrative telling people what to do.  

For some reason people are being seduced to think that someone unvaccinated is somehow a bad person or somehow the reason we are still in this mess.  The data around the world and in our own country just does not support that claim at all.  So Why then do you believe that?  Because remember the facts across the globe that unvaccinated, vaccinated, and those with natural immunity(regardless of vax status) can still get and transmit the disease and can still get and get serious illness from the disease.  So again if you can get it with or without a vacc what is it specifically about someone who is unvaccinated that makes you so mad?  Is it because you think the rules and regulations will let up if everyone gets vaxed?  Or is it because you keep hearing over and over and over in the talking circles you are surrounded in that you should blame the unvaxed?  

Regarding the side effects of the vaccine itself.  They are real.  It is quite clear when looking at the data globally as well as within our VAERS system that there are signals that need to be looked at.  And people have as much right to be concerned with a particular side effect from the vaccine as they do from the virus.  At least in a free society.  Your circumstances, health status, co-morbities are your concerns and determine your risk factors for you, and mine are mine.  We do not have the same risk factors.  Me, a middle aged male at the age of 44, have different risk factors than that of a 74 yr old, as well as different risk factors than that of my 13yr old son.  

When you look at the data there are several things you need to make sure you know are true, even if you don't believe it.  1) Natural immunity is a real thing.  The data shows it to be as strong at a minimum, but most of the 137 studies out there show it to be more robust and last longer than Vaccine alone.  The latest data out of Israel does also show that a person with natural immunity that gets boostered has even more robust and long lived immunity that Natural immunity alone.  

Natural immunity has been a thing for every bacterial, viral, and/or fungal infection that has ever affected our species as well as pretty much every other species for as long as time.  Long before human morals and politics came into play, as ancient hominids when a human came into contact with a pathogen if their immune stystem didnt clear the bug they died.  No medicine or vaccines to save them.  However, if they somehow survived the pathogen their immune system then became primed to react to that pathogen once again should they encounter it.  If that individual was fort enough to not be eaten by a big predetor or killed by a rival tribe and went on to procreate, they passed on genes to their progeny that then had a higher chance of surviving along with the antibodies passed on through moms milk.  This is survival of the fittest, and the way mother nature still works with pretty much every other species on the planet when uninterrupted by human intervention.  The fact that this natural immunity discussion is not a part of policies, shit its not even allowed to be posted about on social media(try posting something with the hashtag #natural immunity) on Instagram and see what happens.  This should tell you that something isnt right.  

The part of your comment that has me most concerned though is the statement "there are individuals who simply don’t want to do what their told".   Wow is all I have to say.  What if Im a nurse working at a NYS hospital saving lives, but after both having the disease already and after my original 2 vaccines I had a serious complication that my Doctor "TOLD" me to not get the booster because it may kill me?  But the politician is telling me that I have to get the jab you will be fired. Who do I listen to?  Who should tell me what to do in that situation?  These scenarios are real my friend.  

This is not a one size fits all Nuts.  For my 13yr old son, according to the data the risk of myocarditis from the vaccines is actually higher, even though its still a low risk, than it is for serious disease or death from getting the virus.  On top of that my son already got the virus and has natural immunity, and is a multisport in shape athlete. Does this eliminate his risk of sever illness?  Of course not, but it certainly markedly reduces the risk factors, and yet Hochul wants to mandate vaccines for all kids over 5 by next fall.  Think about that.  

The only way I can imagine you making these statements above is either A) you simply have not been informed that this other data and discussions actually excit, or B) you refuse to believe its true and cont to simply "do as your told" regardless of any other evidence to the contrary.

The analogy might go like this:  Youve been in your house and have been told by the TV sky is yellow and there is so much traffic on your street that if you even attempt to go outside and cross the street you will be hit and either severely injured or killed.  Dont even bother trying.  

But there are people calling you saying if you just step outside for a few moments you will see the sky isnt yellow its actually blue, and while yes there are cars driving down your street, but if you take a few precautions there are ways to actually cross the street safely as well as return to the other side.  The risk isnt zero but there are multiple ways to mitigate your risk factors to do it safely.  

Too many people refuse to ever come out to see for themselves feeling its just safer to stay indoors and trust that the people telling them what to do know best.  Others have walked outside and still refuse to believe the sky is blue despite seeing it with their own eyes, and refuse to believe that there are several ways to cross the street safely.  Instead choose to go back inside and cont to believe the sky is yellow.  
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