Thursday, 02/18: The Next One

phil155 wrote:sitting essentially under that 10.7

You've had some month then, huh! You might hit 4 feet yet on Thursday, no? I can't even imagine...

NAM is showing intense frontogenesis.  If anyone is going to approach 1' on this they will need to be under the banding.

18z GFS Snow Map:

aiannone wrote:

Nice good 1st call, and would be happy with that. I think it has the potential to go up a bit like 8-12 potentially in the banding areas. Which looks to set up over NNJ, LI LHV and southern CT if that model holds.

billg315 wrote:18z GFS Snow Map:

This feels like a 6-10" with localized 1' amounts who ever gets under the best banding.

That frontogenesis banding is what he NAM has been picking up with ALL of our winter storms and doing an excellent job. Super Bowl Storm it nailed this. Looking at 2-3" per hour rates under those.

All the ingredients are in place here for a good snowstorm. We have a 50/50 Low, we have High Pressure block to our North, Cold air in place (temps tomorrow don't get above freezing most places and dewpoints at daybreak Thursday in the teens everywhere), and a strong jet from sw to ne just to our west. Even if this does change to sleet or frz rain (and surface temps in most of the area away from the coast never go above freezing) we'll get plenty of snow before we get to that point.

heehaw453 wrote:

billg315 wrote:18z GFS Snow Map:

This feels like a 6-10" with localized 1' amounts who ever gets under the best banding.

Yep, agree.

I will start watching the NAM very closely starting 0Z tonight and especially tomorrow. It sniffs out sneaky warm layers in the soundings as good as anything within 24-36 of an event. The sneaky warm layer is the caveat when you have intense WAA.

heehaw453 wrote:I will start watching the NAM very closely starting 0Z tonight and especially tomorrow.  It sniffs out sneaky warm layers in the soundings as good as anything within 24-36 of an event.  The sneaky warm layer is the caveat when you have intense WAA.

NAM did a good job with that in the 2/1 storm. I'll be keeping an eye on that too. NAM definitely shows some warm air aloft over southern and central NJ, but not before that snow has done some damage. Will definitely be in better range tomorrow morning.

Don’t like the fact that Mt Holly ‘refuses’ to raise a wsa for Ocean County.
I hope they aren’t trying to tell me something.

Good call - Balls to the Wall
Mecs peeps is evolving.

Look at this moisture feed peeps - It goes to the equator for Gods sake - you dont think 1" plus QPF is in this bad boy - that is ONE HELL OF A MOISTURE FEED AND JUICY LIKE A FUDRUCKERS BURGER!! This is reminiscent of the SB storm and Feb 1st for the moisture feed

amugs wrote:Good call -  Balls to the Wall
Mecs peeps is evolving.

F yeah!!!! I have been in the jackpot along with many others all this year, its amazing. After the last two years we deserve it!! This is pretty ballsy call with the + on there. Is this a trustable source?

GEFS are wet and improving each run
remember this is s cold air mass in place temps do not get above 25/26* if that* for NNJ so snow ratios will be better than 10:1 IMO more like 12:1 maybe 14:1 looking at the Chart Alex posted a week back

amugs wrote:GEFS are wet and improving each run
remember this is s cold air mass in place temps do not get above 25/26* if that* for NNJ so snow ratios will be better than 10:1 IMO more like 12:1 maybe 14:1 looking at the Chart Alex posted a week back

What do you think about north of NYC for rations? Not IMBY don't worry general area in NY that might see higher ratios I am asking. Its freaking cold out, we went out for a walk and the cold and wind blew in out of nowhere, was that part of the incoming cold for this storm? It was quick and the wind was fierce.  I am fine with 10:1 but just curious if you think its NNJ and across horizontally.

Is this now turning into another 2 day affair, where there will be backend snow into Friday? Well, backend for those who change over. I’m seeing lots of signs pointing to that. As of now, less than inch. But that’s how it starts...

aiannone wrote:

amugs wrote:GEFS are wet and improving each run
remember this is s cold air mass in place temps do not get above 25/26* if that* for NNJ so snow ratios will be better than 10:1 IMO more like 12:1 maybe 14:1 looking at the Chart Alex posted a week back

Temps at height of precip via 18z NAM, 18z GFS and 18z EURO





Ratio Chart:

cool yeah I seen this b4 not as clean a chart though. Wow so my temps stay in the 2nd range so up to 15 inches IF the area stays in 1.0 qpf, but looks like locally more, could this be a G? Frank is leaving HA, he isnt chiming in cuz he is crying.

In which direction is the GFS trending? With all that higher qpf to the South of NYC is that rain then because the snow maps do not show 20 inches of snow.

SENJsnowman wrote:Don’t like the fact that Mt Holly ‘refuses’ to raise a wsa for Ocean County.
I hope they aren’t trying to tell me something.

The XFactor is the IP (sleet).  The models are rarely going to cross section the mid-levels entirely accurate and sniff out the warm tongues.  Even the NAM misses many of them.  The further NW of the I-95 the less your chance of this mixing earlier than progged.  Mt Holly definitely doesn't have the confidence in that right now, but that may change tomorrow.  Dual-Pol radar will be in heavy use come Thursday around here, I'm sure of it and we will all be wondering when it's our turn.

jmanley32 wrote:

amugs wrote:GEFS are wet and improving each run
remember this is s cold air mass in place temps do not get above 25/26* if that* for NNJ so snow ratios will be better than 10:1 IMO more like 12:1 maybe 14:1 looking at the Chart Alex posted a week back

What do you think about north of NYC for rations? Not IMBY don't worry general area in NY that might see higher ratios I am asking. Its freaking cold out, we went out for a walk and the cold and wind blew in out of nowhere, was that part of the incoming cold for this storm? It was quick and the wind was fierce.  I am fine with 10:1 but just curious if you think its NNJ and across horizontally.

The biggest bust potential is early mixing. Seen it too many times over the years. Models sometimes miss that warm tongue. If you can avoid mixing on this one until 90% of the QPF is exhausted you'll do very well.

Heehaw is right about those sneaky warm layers. Look at 2/1 as an example. I was in what would have been one of the Jackpot zones with 15" on the ground and snowing hard, then out of nowhere a band of sleet set up over my area. I had two to three hours of heavy sleet that probably cost me 3-6" of additional snow. And I'm well north and west of I-95.