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Banter Thread 8.0

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Post by nutleyblizzard Wed Mar 15, 2023 12:16 pm

What a downright crap winter. Worst one for futility that I’ve ever seen. Every time there was a potential storm, there was something in the pattern to muck things up. The  ongoing -PNA, the SE ridge, lack of a cold high. I can go on and on. I ended up with a paltry 4 1/2 inches of snowfall where I get 30 in a normal season. The silver lining in all of this is the demise of the 3 year La Niña. I’m looking forward to a pattern reshuffle next season.

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Post by CPcantmeasuresnow Wed Mar 15, 2023 12:19 pm

nutleyblizzard wrote:What a downright crap winter. Worst one for futility that I’ve ever seen. Every time there was a potential storm, there was something in the pattern to muck things up. The  ongoing -PNA, the SE ridge, lack of a cold high. I can go on and on. I ended up with a paltry 4 1/2 inches of snowfall where I get 30 in a normal season. The silver lining in all of this is the demise of the 3 year La Niña. I’m looking forward to a pattern reshuffle next season.

NYC's average is 30 inches so I would think yours is a little above that.

Of course that has nothing to do with it being a crap winter which it most definitely has been.

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Post by heehaw453 Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:44 am

Now I'm comfortable saying this to whatever this was because it was certainly not winter.


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Post by docstox12 Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:09 am

heehaw453 wrote:Now I'm comfortable saying this to whatever this was because it was certainly not winter.


Great album.Listened to this whole album in November 1968 over a Buddies house.Hopefully we make up next season .Not complaining up here though, was below normalbut still had over 34 inches.
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Post by SENJsnowman Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:31 am

docstox12 wrote:
heehaw453 wrote:Now I'm comfortable saying this to whatever this was because it was certainly not winter.


Great album.Listened to this whole album in November 1968 over a Buddies house.Hopefully we make up next season .Not complaining up here though, was below normalbut still had over 34 inches.

Wow, this full version of The End is awesome- I'm rather sure the Greatest Hits version is a lot shorter and 'louder' and frankly just nowhere near as good as this version. Doc, I remember picking this cd up for like $1.50 from the FSU student market back in the early '90s. lol But I don't remember noting the difference between the versions of this song like just jumped out at me now.

Anyway, great track selection and great job all winter heehaw! Your very frequent and accurate updates and assessments were the highlight (sadly, lol) of the snow season. Thank you!

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Post by docstox12 Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:19 am

SENJsnowman wrote:
docstox12 wrote:
heehaw453 wrote:Now I'm comfortable saying this to whatever this was because it was certainly not winter.


Great album.Listened to this whole album in November 1968 over a Buddies house.Hopefully we make up next season .Not complaining up here though, was below normalbut still had over 34 inches.

Wow, this full version of The End is awesome- I'm rather sure the Greatest Hits version is a lot shorter and 'louder' and frankly just nowhere near as good as this version. Doc, I remember picking this cd up for like $1.50 from the FSU student market back in the early '90s. lol But I don't remember noting the difference between the versions of this song like just jumped out at me now.

Anyway, great track selection and great job all winter heehaw! Your very frequent and accurate updates and assessments were the highlight (sadly, lol) of the snow season. Thank you!

SE, I heard this long version a few times over the years.Fit right in to my generation that was doing "duck and cover" A Bomb drills in the 1950's, close to the "end" in the Cuban Missel Crisis of 1962,LOL.Ifyou lived through the changes in this country from 1960-1968 like I did, you would have thought it was the end,LOL.Bottom line, I am still here at 72 and Morrison is long gone.Great musicianship but depressing message.
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Post by weatherwatchermom Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:51 pm

The only thing worse than this winter is the college admission process..lol...Many have been thru it..but it is just so insane!!!!! Son(so proud) got accepted to Johns Hopkins today....what an honor for his hard work...then I ask my husband and son how much merit did he get... to find only the financial aid page..
call the school to find out if merit comes out separate..some schools do that..NOPE it would have been listed if you got merit(only school so far to not offer any)..told amount on FA is your payment...$85,791 per year..YES $343 Thousand dollars for an undergrad degree...(and then another 200-250 for JD).hahahahah Brick Brick Brick
Thank goodness this was not his top choice..and they offer a "number" of merit scholarships..come to find out today its around 20...hahahaah
We have 2 more weeks of this.(he has some good offers already thank goodness).please help me..IS THERE ANY KIND OF WEATHER DISTRACTION COMING????
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Post by docstox12 Fri Mar 17, 2023 10:37 pm

weatherwatchermom wrote:The only thing worse than this winter is the college admission process..lol...Many have been thru it..but it is just so insane!!!!! Son(so proud) got accepted to Johns Hopkins today....what an honor for his hard work...then I ask my husband and son how much merit did he get... to find only the financial aid page..
call the school to find out if merit comes out separate..some schools do that..NOPE it would have been listed if you got merit(only school so far to not offer any)..told amount on FA is your payment...$85,791 per year..YES $343 Thousand dollars for an undergrad degree...(and then another 200-250 for JD).hahahahah Brick Brick Brick
Thank goodness this was not his top choice..and they offer a "number" of merit scholarships..come to find out today its around 20...hahahaah
We have 2 more weeks of this.(he has some good offers already thank goodness).please help me..IS THERE ANY KIND OF WEATHER DISTRACTION COMING????

Wow, Mom, that is s lot of money.Maybe a college closer to home so your son could live at home and save dorm costs.I did that from 1970 to 1976 going to Fairleigh Dickinson University in Teaneck, transferring there after a year at Stevens Tech.People made fun of the school calling it "Fairly Ridiculous" but I did two years of undergrad then got into the Fairleigh Dickinson Dental School, all while I lived at home in Fort Lee saving my Dad on dorm costs.IMO, it doesn't matter where you go but what you take out of it.Best of luck in your journey.
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Post by kalleg Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:30 am

Fairliegh Dickenson a great school, would be a more than fine choice--and now is in the headlines as only the second 16th seed ever to defeat the #1 seed (Purdue 63-58) yesterday in the basketball NCAA championships!

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Post by docstox12 Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:40 am

kalleg wrote:Fairliegh Dickenson a great school, would be a more than fine choice--and now is in the headlines as only the second 16th seed ever to defeat the #1 seed (Purdue 63-58) yesterday in the basketball NCAA championships!

Wow, I saw that this morning.The years I was on campus there 1970-1976, they always struggled.Amazing that what is known as a commuters school could knock off Perdue.
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Post by weatherwatchermom Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:32 am

docstox12 wrote:
weatherwatchermom wrote:The only thing worse than this winter is the college admission process..lol...Many have been thru it..but it is just so insane!!!!! Son(so proud) got accepted to Johns Hopkins today....what an honor for his hard work...then I ask my husband and son how much merit did he get... to find only the financial aid page..
call the school to find out if merit comes out separate..some schools do that..NOPE it would have been listed if you got merit(only school so far to not offer any)..told amount on FA is your payment...$85,791 per year..YES $343 Thousand dollars for an undergrad degree...(and then another 200-250 for JD).hahahahah Brick Brick Brick
Thank goodness this was not his top choice..and they offer a "number" of merit scholarships..come to find out today its around 20...hahahaah
We have 2 more weeks of this.(he has some good offers already thank goodness).please help me..IS THERE ANY KIND OF WEATHER DISTRACTION COMING????

Wow, Mom, that is s lot of money.Maybe a college closer to home so your son could live at home and save dorm costs.I did that from 1970 to 1976 going to Fairleigh Dickinson University in Teaneck, transferring there after a year at Stevens Tech.People made fun of the school calling it "Fairly Ridiculous" but I did two years of undergrad then got into the Fairleigh Dickinson Dental School, all while I lived at home in Fort Lee saving my Dad on dorm costs.IMO, it doesn't matter where you go but what you take out of it.Best of luck in your journey.

FDU is a great school...my dad and aunt are both successful graduates of FDU...We cast a wide net in his search of the right program, fit, and set a budget  from day 1 of this search .16 schools (that is a part time job of managing...lol)of different levels, geography He was accepted into an amazing program Rutgers..which is 45 min from home..but that school is just not a right fit..The process is so complicated and crazy. My point is we are the only country in the world where a freaking education even at local state school can cost you an arm and a leg..and in some cases a kidney....lol  They laid out a payment plan..lol of over an 8000 dollar payment monthly..The fact that there is no merit scholarships is crazy...they were not clear....Vassar tells you up front..NO MERIT..only need(their price tag is 72,000)...so for no other reason(and there were others..lol another story for another time..)we did not consider applying to vassar...again..just an obsurd process..and thank goodness only have to go thru this 1 time..lol
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Post by Dunnzoo Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:38 am

Best of luck Joanne! I went through the process 3 times, but thankfully my kids did not want to go away to school so we saved on housing and meals. My daughter got accepted to state schools, but there was no financial aid except student loans. She went to Felician, and got a ton of scholarships and tuition grants. And yes, in the end, it's all about making sure you find the right fit so they're successful.

_________________
Janet

Snowfall winter of 2023-2024  17.5"    

Snowfall winter of 2022-2023       6.0"
Snowfall winter of 2021-2022     17.6"    1" sleet 2/25/22
Snowfall winter of 2020-2021     51.1"
Snowfall winter of 2019-2020       8.5"
Snowfall winter of 2018-2019     25.1"
Snowfall winter of 2017-2018     51.9"
Snowfall winter of 2016-2017     45.6"
Snowfall winter of 2015-2016     29.5"
Snowfall winter of 2014-2015     50.55"
Snowfall winter of 2013-2014     66.5"
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Post by weatherwatchermom Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:55 pm

Dunnzoo wrote:Best of luck Joanne! I went through the process 3 times, but thankfully my kids did not want to go away to school so we saved on housing and meals. My daughter got accepted to state schools, but there was no financial aid except student loans. She went to Felician, and got a ton of scholarships and tuition grants. And yes, in the end, it's all about making sure you find the right fit so they're successful.
Thank you! and yes it's all about making the right choices..he has a good head on his shoulders..but you know how it is having been thru it. Yes, he has gotten lucky and gotten some phenomenal
scholarships), and we are not chasing the top schools..we have a very fair mix. he did throw his hat into a couple of schools with the understanding if there is not enough merit to meet what we saved and budgeted..you can not go..he gets it..would it be great to go to a school with a fancy name yes...but is realistic that you can go to any school and what you put in is what your get out...I just am gripping at this whole process and the competition and the fact of what they expect of these teens...and how did we get here??


Last edited by weatherwatchermom on Sat Mar 18, 2023 4:04 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by billg315 Sat Mar 18, 2023 3:55 pm

weatherwatchermom wrote:
docstox12 wrote:
weatherwatchermom wrote:The only thing worse than this winter is the college admission process..lol...Many have been thru it..but it is just so insane!!!!! Son(so proud) got accepted to Johns Hopkins today....what an honor for his hard work...then I ask my husband and son how much merit did he get... to find only the financial aid page..
call the school to find out if merit comes out separate..some schools do that..NOPE it would have been listed if you got merit(only school so far to not offer any)..told amount on FA is your payment...$85,791 per year..YES $343 Thousand dollars for an undergrad degree...(and then another 200-250 for JD).hahahahah Brick Brick Brick
Thank goodness this was not his top choice..and they offer a "number" of merit scholarships..come to find out today its around 20...hahahaah
We have 2 more weeks of this.(he has some good offers already thank goodness).please help me..IS THERE ANY KIND OF WEATHER DISTRACTION COMING????

Wow, Mom, that is s lot of money.Maybe a college closer to home so your son could live at home and save dorm costs.I did that from 1970 to 1976 going to Fairleigh Dickinson University in Teaneck, transferring there after a year at Stevens Tech.People made fun of the school calling it "Fairly Ridiculous" but I did two years of undergrad then got into the Fairleigh Dickinson Dental School, all while I lived at home in Fort Lee saving my Dad on dorm costs.IMO, it doesn't matter where you go but what you take out of it.Best of luck in your journey.

FDU is a great school...my dad and aunt are both successful graduates of FDU...We cast a wide net in his search of the right program, fit, and set a budget  from day 1 of this search .16 schools (that is a part time job of managing...lol)of different levels, geography He was accepted into an amazing program Rutgers..which is 45 min from home..but that school is just not a right fit..The process is so complicated and crazy. My point is we are the only country in the world where a freaking education even at local state school can cost you an arm and a leg..and in some cases a kidney....lol  They laid out a payment plan..lol of over an 8000 dollar payment monthly..The fact that there is no merit scholarships is crazy...they were not clear....Vassar tells you up front..NO MERIT..only need(their price tag is 72,000)...so for no other reason(and there were others..lol another story for another time..)we did not consider applying to vassar...again..just an obsurd process..and thank goodness only have to go thru this 1 time..lol

Good luck weatherwatchermom. I can't believe the cost of undergrad education today. Politicians should stop talking about forgiving student loans (addressing the problem at the back-end) and look at the real root of the problem: the unacceptable tuition rates these institutions are charging. But I digress. I'm sure it will work out in the end.

On a side note, Doc, how about that FDU game last night?! Very Happy
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Post by weatherwatchermom Sat Mar 18, 2023 4:26 pm

billg315 wrote:
weatherwatchermom wrote:
docstox12 wrote:
weatherwatchermom wrote:The only thing worse than this winter is the college admission process..lol...Many have been thru it..but it is just so insane!!!!! Son(so proud) got accepted to Johns Hopkins today....what an honor for his hard work...then I ask my husband and son how much merit did he get... to find only the financial aid page..
call the school to find out if merit comes out separate..some schools do that..NOPE it would have been listed if you got merit(only school so far to not offer any)..told amount on FA is your payment...$85,791 per year..YES $343 Thousand dollars for an undergrad degree...(and then another 200-250 for JD).hahahahah Brick Brick Brick
Thank goodness this was not his top choice..and they offer a "number" of merit scholarships..come to find out today its around 20...hahahaah
We have 2 more weeks of this.(he has some good offers already thank goodness).please help me..IS THERE ANY KIND OF WEATHER DISTRACTION COMING????

Wow, Mom, that is s lot of money.Maybe a college closer to home so your son could live at home and save dorm costs.I did that from 1970 to 1976 going to Fairleigh Dickinson University in Teaneck, transferring there after a year at Stevens Tech.People made fun of the school calling it "Fairly Ridiculous" but I did two years of undergrad then got into the Fairleigh Dickinson Dental School, all while I lived at home in Fort Lee saving my Dad on dorm costs.IMO, it doesn't matter where you go but what you take out of it.Best of luck in your journey.

FDU is a great school...my dad and aunt are both successful graduates of FDU...We cast a wide net in his search of the right program, fit, and set a budget  from day 1 of this search .16 schools (that is a part time job of managing...lol)of different levels, geography He was accepted into an amazing program Rutgers..which is 45 min from home..but that school is just not a right fit..The process is so complicated and crazy. My point is we are the only country in the world where a freaking education even at local state school can cost you an arm and a leg..and in some cases a kidney....lol  They laid out a payment plan..lol of over an 8000 dollar payment monthly..The fact that there is no merit scholarships is crazy...they were not clear....Vassar tells you up front..NO MERIT..only need(their price tag is 72,000)...so for no other reason(and there were others..lol another story for another time..)we did not consider applying to vassar...again..just an obsurd process..and thank goodness only have to go thru this 1 time..lol

Good luck weatherwatchermom.  I can't believe the cost of undergrad education today. Politicians should stop talking about forgiving student loans (addressing the problem at the back-end) and look at the real root of the problem: the unacceptable tuition rates these institutions are charging. But I digress. I'm sure it will work out in the end.

On a side note, Doc, how about that FDU game last night?! Very Happy

A friend has a daughter that attends FDU and is a cheerleader..so these are exciting time right now!!

I agree with you 100 percent about loans...it does not solve the problem! This whole process is just a money making machine..think about it Boston U last year had 81,000 applicants at $80.. they do not waive unless you are need based... so even if only half pay the fee that is still 3.2 million that they make in application fees alone...lol..oh and they only accepted 3100. students.... It is all so mind boggling...I am so happy for my son and his friends. I am excited for the next stage to see what they will do in the future. (sad of course that they will be away from home) It just is overwhelming that we spend most of senior year wasting time getting them thru this process. I am ready for April 1st(yes we have 2 schools who release their decision on April Fools day  Shocked ) to get here so we can put this behind us and just look at our spread sheet decide and move onto the fun stuff.. Shopping for dorm room stuff...oh that is a whole other racket...hahahah
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Post by docstox12 Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:05 am

billg315 wrote:
weatherwatchermom wrote:
docstox12 wrote:
weatherwatchermom wrote:The only thing worse than this winter is the college admission process..lol...Many have been thru it..but it is just so insane!!!!! Son(so proud) got accepted to Johns Hopkins today....what an honor for his hard work...then I ask my husband and son how much merit did he get... to find only the financial aid page..
call the school to find out if merit comes out separate..some schools do that..NOPE it would have been listed if you got merit(only school so far to not offer any)..told amount on FA is your payment...$85,791 per year..YES $343 Thousand dollars for an undergrad degree...(and then another 200-250 for JD).hahahahah Brick Brick Brick
Thank goodness this was not his top choice..and they offer a "number" of merit scholarships..come to find out today its around 20...hahahaah
We have 2 more weeks of this.(he has some good offers already thank goodness).please help me..IS THERE ANY KIND OF WEATHER DISTRACTION COMING????

Wow, Mom, that is s lot of money.Maybe a college closer to home so your son could live at home and save dorm costs.I did that from 1970 to 1976 going to Fairleigh Dickinson University in Teaneck, transferring there after a year at Stevens Tech.People made fun of the school calling it "Fairly Ridiculous" but I did two years of undergrad then got into the Fairleigh Dickinson Dental School, all while I lived at home in Fort Lee saving my Dad on dorm costs.IMO, it doesn't matter where you go but what you take out of it.Best of luck in your journey.

FDU is a great school...my dad and aunt are both successful graduates of FDU...We cast a wide net in his search of the right program, fit, and set a budget  from day 1 of this search .16 schools (that is a part time job of managing...lol)of different levels, geography He was accepted into an amazing program Rutgers..which is 45 min from home..but that school is just not a right fit..The process is so complicated and crazy. My point is we are the only country in the world where a freaking education even at local state school can cost you an arm and a leg..and in some cases a kidney....lol  They laid out a payment plan..lol of over an 8000 dollar payment monthly..The fact that there is no merit scholarships is crazy...they were not clear....Vassar tells you up front..NO MERIT..only need(their price tag is 72,000)...so for no other reason(and there were others..lol another story for another time..)we did not consider applying to vassar...again..just an obsurd process..and thank goodness only have to go thru this 1 time..lol

Good luck weatherwatchermom.  I can't believe the cost of undergrad education today. Politicians should stop talking about forgiving student loans (addressing the problem at the back-end) and look at the real root of the problem: the unacceptable tuition rates these institutions are charging. But I digress. I'm sure it will work out in the end.

On a side note, Doc, how about that FDU game last night?! Very Happy

Billg, agree 100% on your take on tuition!
Yes, FDU stunned the number one seed Boilermakers of Perdue.Love that "boilermaker" name, not only for the solid steel inference but for helping one to imagine a shot of whiskey falling into a mug of beer!!
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Post by docstox12 Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:10 am

Mom, glad to see you are coming to the end of the college application process! Reminds me of Sisyphus rolling that boulder up a hill.Do they still require medical exams? I remember that back in 1969 when I applied.
I know this has been a pain in the arse, but your son is VERY lucky to have two wonderful parents who are helping him get the best out of life.
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Post by amugs Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:10 pm

After having 2 sons go through college one Penn State and the other Quinnipiac I can honestly say the biggest business in America besides politics. It is for the elites and that is what they want just like it was 100 years ago. You think it maybe off base but having gone through 6 years of jumping through hoops and running a marathon to help my sons with their expenses, yes they picked up 1/2, have to have skin in the game and I do not believe in the line about they'll be in too much debt, then choose a school at your means which we did. QU I negotiated with and got them to bump up the financial scholarship to 18.5K a year and my son applied and won 3 different other scholarships through school. When Marist came back and offered 4K for a 58K tuition a year even though it was a top choice we said no go and he was fine with that.
The days of a summer job and working during the year to pay for college are LOOONNNGG gone like I did at Montclair State.
It is a sad state of affairs and it is only getting worse as I see it.
Yes, the root of the problem is not the forgiveness of loans - then why the hell did you go their if you couldn't afford it? Why is your problem become my mine to solve? Heck, maybe stop sending tens of billions overseas and funding all these bs policies that we waste tremendous $$ on (168 NGO's in DC that are on the dole, most ever- the office of redundancy to the office of redundancy to the other office of redundancy etc.!).
Congrats Mom and best of luck - the FAFSA forms are a PITA, heck anything the Federal Govt does is!


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WINTER 2014-15 : 55.12" +.02 for 6 coatings (avg. 35")
WINTER 2015-16 Total - 29.8" (Avg 35")
WINTER 2016-17 : 39.5" so far
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Post by dkodgis Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:05 pm

“It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of light, it was the season of darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair.”

― Charles Dickens, A Tale of Two Cities
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Post by docstox12 Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:10 pm

Great post Mugsy, another wonderful Mom and Dad helping their boys out.
I will mention that for some , college is just not in the picture, either financially or the youngster does not want to go.Getting into a trade is solid these days, machinists, electricians, plumbers, carpenters.HVAC people work year round.My great nephew tried college a year, didn't like it, and got into IBEW 3.He is a Journeyman electrician making good money and bought a house with his new wife in Ringwood.And here's the capper.....NO DEBT.This culture looks down on people who work hard with their hands getting them dirty.Not so when you see their financial state!
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Post by weatherwatchermom Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:34 pm

amugs wrote:After having 2 sons go through college one Penn State and the other Quinnipiac I can honestly say the biggest business in America besides politics. It is for the elites and that is what they want just like it was 100 years ago. You think it maybe off base but having gone through 6 years of jumping through hoops and running a marathon to help my sons with their expenses, yes they picked up 1/2, have to have skin in the game and I do not believe in the line about they'll be in too much debt, then choose a school at your means which we did. QU I negotiated with and got them to bump up the financial scholarship to 18.5K a year and my son applied and won 3 different other scholarships through school. When Marist came back and offered 4K for a 58K tuition a year even though it was a top choice we said no go and he was fine with that.
The days of a summer job and working during the year to pay for college are LOOONNNGG gone like I did at Montclair State.
It is a sad state of affairs and it is only getting worse as I see it.
Yes, the root of the problem is not the forgiveness of loans - then why the hell did you go their if you couldn't afford it? Why is your problem become my mine to solve? Heck, maybe stop sending tens of billions overseas and funding all these bs policies that we waste tremendous $$ on (168 NGO's in DC that are on the dole, most ever- the office of redundancy to the office of redundancy to the other office of redundancy etc.!).
Congrats Mom and best of luck - the FAFSA forms are a PITA, heck anything the Federal Govt does is!


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Mugs totally agree...in our case we have saved for this and he has a budget..he will def have skin in the game for grad school. My friends daughter will be going to QU. I have heard good things..and did not apply to Penn..too big of a school..lol Husband made him apply to Rutghers.(last on his list..said its like being at disney with all the busses) The process is just insane and something has to give at some point.But paying off loans is not the answer..Son has gotten some wonderful offers from schools so far..we have 6 more to go..April 1st its over..he has a great head on his shoulders and said today.."I am happy I got in, but totally realize that its not the school for me. Why would we pay that kind of money for school."(we applied to 2 very selective schools out of the 16..he is a high stat kid..so you have to be in it to win it that has been our motto..you don't know if he would have been one of the ones that got that ride)the only skin we have in the game is the application fee and he can skip a few trips to dunkin/rook/or starbucks..lol we have a kerig.. Smile  Smile  

PS..the CSS is a heck of a lot worse than FASFA..I called the css the colenosopy ..absolutely ridiculous what they want to know.  

On the weather note..I have been watching the reels of what its like out at monmouth mountain....totally insane!!! and would like to experience that 1 time in my life!
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Post by billg315 Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:14 am

docstox12 wrote:Great post Mugsy, another wonderful Mom and Dad helping their boys out.
I will mention that for some , college is just not in the picture, either financially or the youngster does not want to go.Getting into a trade is solid these days, machinists, electricians, plumbers, carpenters.HVAC people work year round.My great nephew tried college a year, didn't like it, and got into IBEW 3.He is a Journeyman electrician making good money and bought a house with his new wife in Ringwood.And here's the capper.....NO DEBT.This culture looks down on people who work hard with their hands getting them dirty.Not so when you see their financial state!

This. 100% on target. College is not for everyone, and it is not everyone's best path.  Trade work is important, critical in fact, and not to be looked down upon, and in many cases it is as well or better paid than some of the jobs these kids will end up with after college. We should be encouraging kids to get into trades with more shop classes and apprenticeships in high school. If they like it, and choose that path instead of college, they will save money, get a job they enjoy, and make good money. If they don't, college is still an option.  I saw a news report last night that construction trades are desperate for workers and experiencing a labor shortage now despite offering very good wages and benefits. Many projects are being delayed due to this labor shortage. Maybe if we were encouraging more kids to look at these trade jobs, we could solve multiple problems at once: the labor shortage in those fields, the number of people saddled with student loan debt, and the number of people who are underpaid with a college degree who could be making better money with one of these other skills. And perhaps, as more kids go that route, it would encourage colleges to drop their tuitions to stay competitive as an option.
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Post by docstox12 Wed Mar 22, 2023 10:17 am

billg315 wrote:
docstox12 wrote:Great post Mugsy, another wonderful Mom and Dad helping their boys out.
I will mention that for some , college is just not in the picture, either financially or the youngster does not want to go.Getting into a trade is solid these days, machinists, electricians, plumbers, carpenters.HVAC people work year round.My great nephew tried college a year, didn't like it, and got into IBEW 3.He is a Journeyman electrician making good money and bought a house with his new wife in Ringwood.And here's the capper.....NO DEBT.This culture looks down on people who work hard with their hands getting them dirty.Not so when you see their financial state!

This. 100% on target. College is not for everyone, and it is not everyone's best path.  Trade work is important, critical in fact, and not to be looked down upon, and in many cases it is as well or better paid than some of the jobs these kids will end up with after college. We should be encouraging kids to get into trades with more shop classes and apprenticeships in high school. If they like it, and choose that path instead of college, they will save money, get a job they enjoy, and make good money. If they don't, college is still an option.  I saw a news report last night that construction trades are desperate for workers and experiencing a labor shortage now despite offering very good wages and benefits. Many projects are being delayed due to this labor shortage. Maybe if we were encouraging more kids to look at these trade jobs, we could solve multiple problems at once: the labor shortage in those fields, the number of people saddled with student loan debt, and the number of people who are underpaid with a college degree who could be making better money with one of these other skills. And perhaps, as more kids go that route, it would encourage colleges to drop their tuitions to stay competitive as an option.

I would get into HVAC.95% of guys don't know anything about boiler/furnace or AC repair.First hot day when people flip the AC button and it doesn't work, the phones light up.Same on the first cold night with the boiler/furnace.They charge top dollar and people have to pay it.
57 years ago when I started High School they had a great Industrial Arts program.They taught trades there.A teacher donated her 1953 Ford and the guys tore down the engine and re built it.I wanted so bad to be in those classes but I was in an academic program and could not take them,lol.Don't know if High School today even bother with Industrial Arts.
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Post by brownie Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:17 pm

docstox12 wrote:Don't know if High School today even bother with Industrial Arts.
The high school I worked at for 12 years has been winding down its industrial arts classes as the teachers retire.  The high school I worked at for 5 years and retired from in fall 2021 had completely dismantled the industrial arts program even before I got there in 2016.  There was nothing at all available to the students in that area.  

These schools want everyone to go to college, which is very sad indeed.

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Post by docstox12 Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:58 pm

brownie wrote:
docstox12 wrote:Don't know if High School today even bother with Industrial Arts.
The high school I worked at for 12 years has been winding down its industrial arts classes as the teachers retire.  The high school I worked at for 5 years and retired from in fall 2021 had completely dismantled the industrial arts program even before I got there in 2016.  There was nothing at all available to the students in that area.  

These schools want everyone to go to college, which is very sad indeed.

Thanks, brownie, for that update. My point of view was from 1969 when I left.We even had Industrial Arts in the 7th and 8th grade.We were taught to make a lamp using a band saw,drill,bending metal, and threading electrical cord through it.

As an Educator, you are spot on in realizing not all students are college material and have the skills required in the trades.At least having an Industrial Arts class would allow the student to find out if it would be something that would make them happy.
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Post by JT33 Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:51 pm

The HS/MS where I worked used to have Wood Shop and Metal Shop. Both rooms were beautiful and the quality of the student work was fantastic. Excellent teachers. Unfortunately, as is happening in so many places, the arts and shop classes are being cut. Those classes were cut out many years before I retired (2019). It's a terrible disservice to kids who are kinesthetic learners and need that kind of outlet.

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Post by weatherwatchermom Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:35 am

brownie wrote:
docstox12 wrote:Don't know if High School today even bother with Industrial Arts.
The high school I worked at for 12 years has been winding down its industrial arts classes as the teachers retire.  The high school I worked at for 5 years and retired from in fall 2021 had completely dismantled the industrial arts program even before I got there in 2016.  There was nothing at all available to the students in that area.  

These schools want everyone to go to college, which is very sad indeed.

I agree with you! It is sad! our school still has a cad and a cooking class..4 years and my son could not get into either one..lol Thank goodness my husband makes him do things with around the house..most kids won't even be able to change a freaking light bulb. That and sign their name in Script on legal documents.

On a side note I saw this morning that a principal was let go from a school for showing a picture of Michael Angelo's David statue.in an art history class. .to 6 graders. OMG...parents complained it was pornographic.. I have friends who are teachers who just retired and are so happy they got out!! The world has gone mad
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